feedback left but vanished into thin air | eBay Coffee | eBay Italy

feedback left but vanished into thin air | eBay Coffee | eBay Italy

feedback left but vanished into thin air

Summary: The discussion concerns a problem with feedback left by elettroinduttore that seems to have disappeared. The thread includes numerous comments from heavenwelkin and other participants, with follow-up replies between elettroinduttore and heavenwelkin. The topic may involve technical difficulties or communication issues regarding the feedback system.

Hello, following a bad purchase experience I left negative feedback for a user. Well, today I noticed that this feedback I left appears nowhere: neither in the store's feedback nor in my feedback left for other users. This is not the first time this has happened to me... what the hell is going on?!? Is it a problem with my account?

During the aforementioned sale and purchase, I opened a dispute, which the seller then closed - because in the meantime the issue was resolved. Could it depend on that?

elettroinduttore

36 View listings

Posted 1 year ago·Last reply 1 year ago

18 comments

elettroinduttore

OP1 year ago

So the controversy is an alternative to feedback... I bet you whatever you want that if the feedback had been positive, it wouldn’t have been removed.

Besides, I had even waited before posting the feedback because if I had posted it a few days after the incident, I would certainly have written a feedback that was anything but free of personal judgments (something that eBay’s own guidelines recommend against). Finally, the usual problem with this platform comes back: if a human had read my feedback and bothered to compare what I wrote with the system logs (and with the chats between me and the seller), they would have found that what I wrote was the plain truth.

But censoring the truth is just fine.

I wonder what would have happened if I had left positive feedback but with a description of the terrible buying experience.

heavenwelkin

·1 year ago

@elettroinduttore wrote:

But it's perfectly fine to censor the truth.

This is not about CENSORING....

Basically, using feedback as:

- a review of the seller's questionable conduct rather than of the item or the final outcome of the sale is not allowed

- using feedback for punitive purposes is not allowed.

- using feedback for extortion purposes is not allowed.

And given your commitment in this discussion (the obsession), I would say this is exactly this kind of approach.

Moreover, eBay has recently adopted COUNTERMEASURES to put this type of highly TOXIC and HARMFUL feedback for a seller into the background by using the RELEVANCE tool, so that any negative feedback deemed not very relevant would be put into the background.

Best regards.

elettroinduttore

OP1 year ago

Say that the seller did not provide the courier with the phone number.

Say that the packaging was suitable for shipping, but it would have been better if it had been more anonymous

Say that the seller provided the tracking code only after I badgered him over chat

This is certainly not an attempt at extortion, I don’t think there is any grounds for a criminal attempt and honestly I don’t even think the seller’s conduct is being criticized. They are simply stating facts that actually happened. If these then reflect poor conduct on the seller’s part or not will be up to the user who reads the feedback, won’t it?!? also because otherwise what are feedback for and how should they be used?

I repeat: precisely because I was aware of the three points you mentioned (specified in the rules) I wanted to take a few weeks to think it over and write everything with a clear head.

If anything was really to be disputed, it was the fact that I complained about not having received the package on time (in fact I had deleted that before hitting send because this was attributable to the fact that no one was home on the day of delivery, but the courier had still passed by).

heavenwelkin

·1 year ago

@elettroinduttore wrote:
Say that the seller did not provide the phone number to the courier.
Say that the packaging was suitable for shipping, but it would have been preferable if it had been more anonymous
Say that the seller provided the tracking code only after wearing him down over chat

Who is replying to you is a user like you, a seller and/or buyer who uses the eBay platform.

From my point of view there are two things to consider about why it is not possible to write whatever you want in the feedback profile.

First point: Offending, damaging, under the moral or legal aspect: the honor, dignity, reputation, good name of others is considered the crime of defamation, for this reason eBay wants to avoid pointless lawsuits in which it would be involved.

Second point: eBay cares that sellers and buyers behave properly and follow the site's guidelines and regulations. It only takes one misplaced word to spark disputes that inevitably lead to conflicts that could arise in the most varied forms, from feedback to open disputes simply because the seller, in our view, acted in a morally questionable way.

Negative feedback does not solve problems.

The problems are solved through a dispute for item not received, or item not as described.

Through the dispute (if brought to a proper conclusion) you receive a refund of what you paid regardless of the seller's "questionable" behavior.

Many years ago feedback was much freer and difficult to remove.

At the time there were no buyer protections like there are today and feedback was much more decisive in determining a seller's good reputation; I'm talking about a time when between sellers and buyers you paid by direct bank transfer and/or Postepay, so you can well imagine how relevant feedback was compared to today.

Over the years the feedback rules have changed, so I am replying to you based on the rules that exist now.

Kind regards.

elettroinduttore

OP1 year ago

@heavenwelkin wrote:
@elettroinduttore wrote:
Say that the seller did not provide the courier with the phone number.
Say that the packaging was suitable for shipment but it would have been preferable if it had been more anonymous
Say that the seller provided the tracking code only after I wore him down over chat
From my point of view there are two considerations to make about why it is not possible to write whatever you want in the feedback profile.

Aside from the obvious fact that you cannot/should not write insults, hidden advertising and the usual stuff that anyone who has been on the internet for a while knows you can't write. I ask you: so how are these feedbacks supposed to be used?

First point: Insulting, damaging, from a moral or legal standpoint: harming the honor, dignity, reputation, good name of others is considered the crime of defamation, which is why ebay wants to avoid unnecessary legal action that it would be involved in.

Assuming that what I wrote reflects the content of the feedback I left, where exactly do you see these nuances in what I wrote? Really, saying that it would have been preferable to have more anonymous packaging harms, insults, damages a seller from a moral standpoint? oh and by the way we're certainly not talking about erotic items :))))

Second point: Ebay cares that sellers and buyers behave properly and follow the site's guidelines and regulations. It only takes one word out of place to spark arguments that inevitably lead to disputes that could arise in the most varied forms, from feedback to disputes opened simply because the seller in our view behaved in a morally questionable way.

Shutting people up by censoring them is not the solution.

Negative feedback does not solve problems.

The concept of feedback has existed since the 1800s - it was invented in England during the industrial revolution. Then by extension it was applied to other fields (medicine, social sciences...). In none of these definitions does it say that feedback is meant to solve problems. If eBay users think this, they are dead wrong... and the platform (ebay) probably has its share of blame.

You solve problems through a dispute for item not received, or item not as described.
Through the dispute (if brought to a proper conclusion) you receive a refund of what you paid regardless of the seller's "questionable" behavior.

I agree... in fact, even silently removing a feedback without even saying "hey user! you were wrong because this and that" is a vile act. I did say that the platform has its share of blame if users think that feedback is used to punish sellers.

Many years ago feedback was much freer and much harder to remove.

I remember it perfectly, I was an idiot, I should have thrown the stuff I wanted to sell in the dump and deleted the account

Back then buyer protections like the ones we have today didn't exist and feedback was much more decisive in determining a seller's good reputation, I'm talking about a time when between sellers and buyers you paid by direct bank transfer and/or Postepay, so you can well imagine how relevant feedback was compared to today.

Ok I came later so I won't comment, I'll just state.

Over the years the feedback rules have changed, so I'm answering you based on the rules that exist now.

Rules that I have read but that do not justify the removal

By the way: I imagine that if I tried to call eBay support explaining everything that happened and maybe having them explain to me where I went wrong, that is something out of this world, right?

elettroinduttore

OP1 year ago

First: the courier was GLS, that little posteitaliane logo in the reply looks pretty out of place

Second: these "alleged shortcomings of his that I would like to highlight through negative feedback" are the same ones you listed in the other discussion when you don't buy from "top reliability sellers" - if you want I can find you the link - besides, eBay requires the phone number and when a seller views the shipping details the number appears. So yes, this is a lack of respect that I think eBay should come down hard on (as a seller I can tell you I've ALWAYS done it this way; as a buyer I can tell you this is the first seller who made an exception - could he be the famous exception that proves the rule?).

I won't comment on the rest because I don't want to stoop to the childish.

heavenwelkin

·1 year ago

@elettroinduttore wrote:
First: the courier was GLS, that Poste Italiane little logo in the reply doesn’t fit at all

Second: these "supposed shortcomings of his that I’d like to highlight through negative feedback" are the same ones you listed to me in the other discussion when you don’t buy from "top reliability sellers" - if you want I can look for the link for you - moreover eBay requires the phone number and when a seller views the shipping details the number appears. So yes, this is a lack of respect that I think eBay should come down hard on (as a seller I can tell you I have ALWAYS done it this way; as a buyer I can tell you this is the first seller who made an exception - could he be the famous exception that proves the rule?).

I won’t comment on the rest because I don’t want to sink to the childish level.

I know how the platform works because I use it as a seller and I keep myself up to date, and I can tell you with reasonable certainty that if you open a dispute (whatever the outcome) then there will be problems with leaving neutral/negative feedback.

For this reason they removed the negative/neutral regardless of what you had written.

I already answered you in reply 2, which I quote:

"That said, to answer your question, yes, when a dispute is opened the feedback issue becomes even more regulated."

You don’t understand what I wrote because you’re not familiar enough with the platform.

What I wrote in the other post that I quote:

"You can still report in the feedback the fact that the seller did not reply to you, did not enter the tracking code, and did not meet the delivery times."

That is valid only if you do not open a dispute and if you use appropriate wording such as for example "difficult communication and NOT the seller omitted to enter the phone number" otherwise the feedback is removed.

I never wrote that you could report if the seller had not entered the phone number.

Go back and reread the links that have already been posted regarding feedback and its rules.

Kind regards.

elettroinduttore

OP1 year ago

To sum up. I pay a seller for an item. He messes up the paperwork. As a result of a dispute that I also accept the resolution of, a feedback is censored - censored, mind you - for me. In the end it turns out that maybe the only one with a shred of fault, MAYBE, is the courier.

The people who used to open rant posts hoping to find support from the community have always disgusted me... and unfortunately I fear that for a user reading my post for the first time, this idea will come across... and I’m very sorry about that.

But I’m a human being too.

I’m just stunned: the "forum" is crawling with users who are functionally illiterate. The ones who give answers by understanding what the other side writes (and whom I still thank) come from a different planet than mine. The Khoros platform is utterly disgusting: I never thought it possible that the human mind could come up with such a wildly non-user-friendly piece of software. Community failed. And then there’s the platform... Ebay, there are no words to describe it: from feedback censored at random (without any explanation) to the agent who tells you "well, we can’t exactly personally verify every dispute with our own inspectors".

The only thing I’m sorry about is that there isn’t a valid alternative for buying and selling the kind of items I’m interested in, so like it or not I have to stay on this platform.

heavenwelkin

·1 year ago

@elettroinduttore wrote:

I remain stunned: the "forum" is teeming with users who are functionally illiterate. Those who give answers by understanding what the other person writes (and whom I still thank) come from a different planet than mine.

What strikes me is the nonchalance with which users are labeled when, by replying to his post, they gave different opinions on the matter.

I'm sorry that he did not take the answers given by the other users very well.

In any case, I can reasonably be certain that no regular participant in this forum suffers from functional illiteracy.

QUOTE:

What is meant by functional illiteracy?
Functional illiteracy, according to the definition given by UNESCO in 1984, is a condition in which an individual has the ability to read, write, and express themselves in a basic way, and encounters considerable difficulty in understanding and analyzing complex discourse or texts intended for an average person, such as newspaper articles, regulations, or bills.

Those who suffer from functional illiteracy have problems adequately understanding written texts, performing simple mathematical calculations, using computer tools, and knowing historical, political, scientific, social, and economic events.

This state of limited competence constitutes a serious obstacle in daily life, preventing the individual from actively participating in society and limiting their access to information and opportunities. The functionally illiterate person is in a passive spectator position when confronted with written texts on web pages or other digital media, unable to take in useful information or carry out tasks that require a deeper understanding.

This condition creates a significant disparity in educational, professional, and social opportunities.

heavenwelkin

·1 year ago

@elettroinduttore wrote:
To sum up. I pay a seller for an item. He messes up filling out the paperwork. Following a dispute, which by the way I accept the outcome of, a feedback comment is censored - yes, censored. In the end it turns out that maybe the only one with a shred of fault MAYBE is the courier.

The phone number is OPTIONAL, so if the seller left it out, you can't crucify him for it respectively:

- by opening a dispute (closed in favor of the seller)

- by posting a negative feedback that highlighted these alleged shortcomings of his

- by starting a public conversation on the forum labeling the participants as functionally illiterate

As a final step, all that's left for us is the declaration of wanting to leave the platform.

Kind regards.

technopartsbay

·1 year ago

Do you have proof that the seller intentionally did not put the number on the package?
Because to fill out a POD, it is MANDATORY to provide a phone number and/or an e-mail address.
Even if the number does not appear (for privacy) on the package, if provided, the couriers have it available on the terminal (and so, if they do you the "favor" of calling you, they do it precisely as a favor, not because they are "obliged").
The responsibility for the incorrect delivery is therefore solely the responsibility of the person in charge and not the seller's (at most he is "guilty" of having entered the tracking late, but he certainly is not responsible for the carrier's actions).
Or rather, he would be responsible for the carrier's actions if the package were lost, arrived damaged due to poor packaging, etc. but in this case the package had been officially delivered to the correct address (and indeed eBay closed the dispute against you).

elettroinduttore

OP1 year ago

I have an email from the courier (GLS) that they sent me after I asked them why they hadn't contacted me (and where my package had ended up). Now, the text isn't a screenshot but a plain copy-paste, however I repeat: the courier didn't have my mobile number because it wasn't provided by the seller, I'm absolutely sure of that.

Negligence on the part of the courier for accepting an order without contact details, probably, in fact I pointed that out to them... but doesn't the seller, who didn't enter it, bear some of the blame too? Also, I didn't leave the negative feedback just because of the number, but because the buying experience was terrible on every front... and in the feedback I had described everything in detail, which is why I don't think it should have been deleted.

mocer-75

·1 year ago

The dispute can’t be closed by the seller; it closes automatically after 21 days in which no actions are taken. Your feedback seems rather flimsy to me; why should the seller be blamed for the courier’s mistake of delivering the parcel to a neighbor? Because he didn’t include the mobile number? That seems excessive to me. Why didn’t he upload the sale’s tracking code on eBay? At least that would make sense. What remains to be understood is what makes you think that, if you weren’t at home, the courier, in the event of having a mobile number, would have bothered to call you instead of delivering the parcel to a neighbor. In a world where couriers have (sadly) the bad habit of leaving parcels unattended without a care.

elettroinduttore

OP1 year ago

because if the SELLER doesn't give MY phone number to the courier, what fault is it of the courier?

The seller uploaded the code ONLY after the dispute was opened.

All the couriers I've dealt with have always done it like this: they don't find me at home -> they call the mobile number that was left as contact info -> I leave instructions to that effect.

elettroinduttore

OP1 year ago

Result A refund will not be issued for this dispute.A refund will not be issued for this dispute. More informationMore information The seller provided the shipping code showing that the item was delivered to your address.

Too bad the code was provided at least 48 hours after I had found the package. The street number was correct, but the courier delivered it to a stranger and delivered it to a stranger because the seller had not put my mobile number on the package. Which, in short, is what I wrote in my feedback.

elettroinduttore

OP1 year ago

I studied the rules carefully... I don't think I violated anything in that regard.

I opened the dispute for a package not received. When I found out the package had ended up with a neighbor, I went to pick it up and, seeing that everything was in order, I waited for the seller to close the case without appealing - after all, the package had turned up and I had received the item.

I left the feedback at least 2 weeks after the dispute was closed, and in the description I pointed out that the package had gone missing because the seller hadn't even put the number on the shipment. I don't like that my negative feedback has vanished into thin air, and neither do I like that ebay staff made it disappear without telling me what was wrong. I'm almost tempted to file a complaint...

heavenwelkin

·1 year ago

@elettroinduttore wrote:
yes, I studied the rules... I don't think I violated anything in these terms.

If the shipping address is CORRECT, the fault cannot fall on the seller.

If the seller failed to enter a phone number, the package should have been held if there was no one at home, but the courier preferred to deliver it to a neighbor.

So the problem is with the courier who, to avoid coming back again (usually 2 delivery attempts are предусмотрed), decided to do it this way.

You recovered the package anyway, so I'd say it's all good.

Kind regards.

heavenwelkin

·1 year ago

Hi elettroinduttore

Feedback is regulated by the platform

For more information you can read here:

https://www.ebay.it/help/policies/feedback-policies/regole-sui-feedback?id=4208

feedback protection measures for sellers

https://pages.ebay.it/protezione-venditori/feedback.html

That said, to answer your question, yes, when a dispute is opened the feedback issue becomes even more regulated.

Kind regards.