Non-compliant item discovered, 30 days have passed since delivery...
Hello everyone,
I’d need some advice about a particular situation 🙄 and a rather awkward one
About 50 days ago I bought a used vintage hardware component sold as new for a fairly hefty sum (1200 eu) that visually matches the description, but since I had no way of checking whether it worked properly at the time of delivery and until the day before yesterday, I took it for granted that it worked, especially considering its perfect cosmetic condition... and instead, to my regret, I’ve found out that it doesn’t.
Probably it was also my mistake not to test the above board sooner, but I wasn’t able to because to verify that it worked I needed other hardware components, which I bought later.
Given that the eBay guarantee is long gone since 30 days have passed
Now I’d like to understand how to proceed, I paid with PayPal with AMEX
I’ve already contacted the seller, who is a private individual in France.
Is there any hope? What do you recommend?
Thanks in advance 🙂
Luca
mocer-75
·2 years agoWhat the heck kind of card is it to have paid 1200 euros for it (if I remember the amount correctly)?
At this point I'm curious 😄
mocer-75
·2 years agoIt’s normal for eBay to wash its hands of it; once I received an item that had been considered lost after months, which the seller had refunded me for. As soon as it was delivered, he asked me if I could give him the money since I had received the item, even though it was months after the refund. I contacted eBay and they told me: for us, the case is closed. It seemed right to me to give the seller the money anyway, but I had to do it with another payment method. Considering that the return case wasn’t opened by eBay, they don’t care one bit.
As for PayPal, I think it took the money from the seller, so it doesn’t own a damn thing; the only owner as of today is the seller and I’m not surprised if, for them, the case is closed.
As already said, it’s a shitty situation for both the buyer and the seller.
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoAnyway, I don’t think the seller can sue the buyer for embezzlement, since the purchase and sale took place through no fewer than three brokerage companies: EBAY/PAYPAL/AMEX.
the buyer can prove that, on PayPal/eBay’s instructions, he sent the item back at his own expense.
The seller cannot demand that the item be returned at the buyer’s expense.
The only thing the seller can do is contact the buyer and provide him with a return label, or send money to the buyer so the item can be sent back.
Kind regards.
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoHi,
no, PP took the money from eBay, which in turn will take it from the seller through the SDD mandate that each of us signs... or through debt collection (in the case of a current account with insufficient funds, closed account, or no longer active mandate).
Yes, the seller is still the rightful owner of the item, of course... But it seems that for him to receive the item, I must receive a formal email from PayPal or eBay explicitly asking me to ship it to the seller and then provide the tracking number.
So IF - and that’s how it seems to me, considering the 3-day press silence - eBay and PP wash their hands of it, ergo the seller has lost the item.
Anyway, let’s repeat it forever and ever in lasting memory: if the seller and I are in this unpleasant situation, it is solely the seller’s fault, since he hindered the refund process by not providing a valid return address and not responding to the dispute within the useful deadlines. Basically he tried to pull a fast one, and now he’s paying the consequences, having ended up between a rock and a hard place (PP and eBay) who are passing the buck to each other.
bye everyone.
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoIn my opinion too, the seller has lost the legitimacy of the item.
I’d like to know what user marioelegio thinks regarding the discussion about embezzlement, which has been discussed several times in the past in other threads here on the eBay forum.
Kind regards.
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoFor now, all quiet... 🙄
Being a card, it takes up very little space, but what if it had been a bulky item?!
I would have had to keep it in storage on my back 🤣
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoPersonally, I’ve never looked into how long the item has to be kept in safekeeping regarding purchases and sales made on eBay.
I’ve never dug into the issue because, on the one hand, it’s true that there is a law regulating this aspect, but I think it can be referred to when a buyer and a seller are directly involved in a purchase and sale where the item is paid for in cash, by cheque or bank transfer and without intermediary systems (see credit card or PayPal), without the help of an international marketplace and when both the seller and the buyer reside in Italy.
So you need to try asking PayPal directly how long you have to keep the item.
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoI called eBay on the phone, and the operator bluntly told me that "it’s no longer their problem"
I can do whatever I want with the parcel 🤔
...and as I had assumed, it was the seller’s fault, who deliberately did NOT provide a valid return address in order to hinder the refund process
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoFor now, no news from the fronts; the seller, I think and hope for his sake, is talking with eBay or PP...
I’d really like to get rid of this hot potato, but right now I’m in limbo; I’ll keep the package in the attic, I don’t know what else to do.
LThe most incredible thing about this situation is that PP, in order to proceed with the refund, only verified that the shipment had taken place through the DHL invoice, without considering whether the package had actually been delivered to the recipient. This means that, in theory, it would have been possible to send the package to a friend or even ship a different item (like 1 kg of salt) without this affecting the refund decision, as long as the shipment had been confirmed. This practice leaves the door open to abuse and raises concerns about the security and integrity of PayPal's refund process.
Have a good weekend
daxsisko
·2 years agothis reminds me of the joke "even Michelangelo made his chapels"...... evidently PayPal makes its own too......... right from the start, having a PayPal claim shipped to an eBay address ( ...and on top of that unverified... and incomplete... what the hell kind of agreement do they have? ) already sounds bad to me...... , then the rest completes the work..... of Michelangelo....
mocer-75
·2 years agoWell, this statement from PayPal is nonsense...
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoThat the item is no longer the buyer's property is correct.
But does that mean the seller has lost ownership of the item, which then became PayPal's property?
So the buyer has to keep it in safekeeping until PayPal gives them new instructions?
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoI wouldn't know, before yesterday morning, when I contacted them to let them know that I could ship at my own expense, PayPal told me that the case was considered closed on their end and that they would no longer contact me.
mocer-75
·2 years agoActually, that sentence sounds pretty much like a sleazy dodge:
!!!! TESTED AND WORKING !!!! !!!! NO WARRANTY OF ANY KIND !!!!
ahahahahah if that isn’t a contradiction...
Then again, let’s say a sealed item has a better chance of working than one kept in a damp basement, but if it were defective from the start... it’s definitely not tested if it’s in a sealed box.
In any case, in my opinion the mistake is PayPal’s; I’ve never seen eBay act as a “checker” in this way, like, send me the item back, I’ll inspect it and then refund you, also because how much knowledge and training should eBay staff have?
Probably, given the new payment rules, eBay always acts as an intermediary between seller and buyer. As a buyer I still pay with PayPal but I pay eBay, which will then forward the payment to seller X; in fact, on the payment statement it says: payment to eBay srl. As a seller, instead, I receive the money from eBay into my bank account even if the seller uses PayPal or pays by bank transfer I receive the payment from eBay.
Unpleasant situation for both anyway...
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoYes, exactly...
Coming back to the issue, as I already wrote, I believe that until 10 days ago the seller took the smart-aleck route by not responding to the emails/requests from eBay (I assume and hope they sent him several emails about the ongoing dispute) or underestimated the complaint. By the way, I sent him 3 messages through eBay and waited 2-3 days for him to reply (total silence)... before opening the PayPal dispute.
I am almost certain - because I’m using deductive logic - that eBay asked him to provide a valid address to receive the forced return. The seller must have thought, "I WON'T provide the address so the buyer WON'T be able to send me the item and therefore WON'T get a refund".
In the absence of a response from the "smart guy", eBay provided its address (incorrect or at least incomplete, missing the street number) to complete the PayPal case. Then, in my opinion, the fact that the package went back and forth is solely eBay's fault, because for PayPal only the tracking matters (i.e., proof that it was shipped), so much so that they didn't even want to know whether the package was actually delivered to the seller or not (in my case, to eBay).
Actually, even as a seller (I buy 70% and sell 30%) I would never want to find myself in a situation like this, but as I said, I don't sell goods that I'm not 100% sure about precisely to avoid problems of this kind.
For the record, to complete the PC I bought other vintage products (monitor, keyboard, mouse, CD, DVD burner, floppy drive, motherboard, video, audio, network and HDD/RAM and definitely more among cables etc.) without having any kind of problem.... unfortunately it happened, certainly not because of my incompetence, since I am also a computer engineer, so I know what I'm doing, and if I had damaged the board myself I would have taken full responsibility (which I have done in the past with goods of a different nature).
hello everyone
mocer-75
·2 years agoI believe eBay obviously has the seller's address, I don't know if when a return request is received eBay asks which address it should be shipped to, but it definitely asks you to provide a shipping label. I've only had requests for two returns since I registered; for the first I provided the shipping label after a few moments, the second instead wanted to return a CGA card that I had sold as not working because I couldn't test it and so I told him: look, it was sold as not working for like €10 when they sell for at least 10 times that when tested, and I shut the request in his face; even though it was specified in the title, in the listing and in the text that it was untested, the buyer told me that it wasn't clear... well, functional illiteracy.
Anyway, as others have said, keep us updated
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoTo be honest, I also have the seller’s address, both because I kept his package * where the sender is indicated and because when he broke the radio silence (following the PP dispute resolved in my favor) the first thing he wrote to me privately was his address for the "return".
From there you know the story, I replied that he should have provided me with the label himself explaining everything and I was clear that I had no intention of paying another 75 eu for a mistake of his (in case he had not provided a valid address during the dispute) or anyone else’s (read PP or eBay).
* When I received the parcel, since I couldn’t test the board without other components, I only removed the seal from the box and the film and checked, by sight, that it was intact and not oxidized etc... so I kept everything, even the package it was shipped to me in.
Now I’m in the situation that, even if I wanted to, I couldn’t send it back because PP this morning on the phone told me that I must/can’t do it without a formal request from them or from eBay.
Basically, and absurdly, even if he were to privately provide me with a label at his own expense now, I can’t send it to him unless I receive an email from PP or eBay...
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoThe seller's request was a request OUTSIDE THE DISPUTE PROTOCOLS.
Usually the seller has a certain amount of time to respond to eBay; if he does not, the dispute is closed in favor of the other party.
Assuming the seller deliberately avoided providing the return address, I don't see the point of having an item shipped to a nonexistent and/or incomplete address.
The case should have been closed in your favor without any further requests to ship to an address different from the seller's if the seller had not responded to eBay's requests.
But since it is no longer possible to step outside the imposed protocols (every service has its own), then these situations simply happen.
As always, whoever has SCRUPULOUSLY followed the protocols has come out on top.
I doubt the seller will send you any money or a shipping label.
Without eBay/PayPal protection, it would be much easier to ship a BRICK rather than the actual item.
Kind regards.
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoOh well, that’s NICE ..... 😂🤣
This is turning into a very informative thread, which probably won’t last long, so I’m saving it on my PC.
Best regards.
homonostalgiens
·2 years ago@sharkrunner1982 I sincerely hope they side with the seller. Trying out an item after 50 days (FIFTY) from receiving it is a childish excuse and something completely unreasonable. What is this, a joke? It is the buyer's duty to open things as soon as possible and try out the items received! Provided you can prove that you were physically unable to or due to force majeure, for example because of serious health problems, in the hospital or I don't know. The wrong behavior here is yours, and you’re even looking for support! Come on...
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoI suggest you read the discussion carefully, unless you have difficulty reading and understanding texts, which seems to be the case considering your response.
eBay has already credited the payment (I’m attaching a screenshot below) and I provided a detailed description of the situation to PayPal afterward and to the seller before that (without receiving any response), based not on my interpretation but on reality.
I cannot accept being accused of fraud and deceit when I am the injured party.
I’ll tell you bluntly that if it had been my fault, I would never have tried a similar “scam”.
If there is anything puerile and immature here, it is definitely only your modus operandi.
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoI’m adding this since you changed the text
With PayPal the buyer has 6 months to dispute a sale, and with Amex they even have 12... so if you don’t like it, don’t sell online or accept the good old bank transfer as payment.
This is the first time it’s happened, and I also explained the reasons that led me to not be able to physically test the product within a few days of receiving it (I needed other items so I could check how it worked, RARE products and hard to find on the market in NOS condition since they are "vintage" and "niche" products).
I wasn’t looking for comfort, just trying to understand how to proceed, and I thank the users who helped me.
I won’t respond to any further trolling or free judgments about my integrity, since I have immense respect for other people’s time, let alone my own.
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoLet's take your listing as an example:
https://www.ebay.it/itm/275873423516
You state that it is new and sealed, which is true from looking at the photos...
but then in the description you say it is "Tested and working"
How did you test it and verify that it's okay if the package is still sealed?!
All things considered, it's more or less my case:
I buy a NOS board and to verify that it's okay (the seller states that it works) I also need to buy the rest of the hardware, namely the motherboard and the monitor/keyboard.
Unfortunately I had to start somewhere, and it took me more than 29 days (not 50 days, there is a typo in the first message; in fact the title is correct) to buy all the necessary hardware because it is hard to find in "sealed" condition.
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoI'll tell you more, as a corollary to what I said before, the Miss PayPal (very kind and very Italian) with whom I spoke by phone to better understand and handle the case, clearly told me: "Send it however you think best, all we need is the tracking number... whether it actually arrives at the eBay office or not doesn't matter."
So yes, I could even have sent the item via Poste or with a courier on a Sicilian cart without even insuring it; just to be safe I used the best courier on the market today precisely to avoid further hassles (of course if I'd known I'd spend twice as much to get the return back, well, maybe maybe...)
Finally, if the seller had even bothered to reply to my 3 private messages before I even opened the PP dispute, I probably would have sent the package at my own expense with a cheap courier (Poste or BRT).
Anyway, I believe the issue of the non-existent street number is attributable to eBay because PayPal only provides the address that eBay communicated to them, so I believe it's eBay's fault. I think it's really an automated procedure where it gets stuck in a loop for us "humans", and that that eBay office is actually not fit to receive packages, it's just an address thrown there.
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoAs a seller I have always refused to ship to incorrect/incomplete addresses.
The absence of a street number is not a minor shortcoming.
But if I hadn’t shipped exactly to that address you would not have received any refund.
There’s no point in looking for support, the protocol says you have to ship exactly to that address.
It doesn’t matter if the parcel then gets sent back and the seller is left without money and without the item.
Now both eBay and PayPal are free of any obligation.
You lost 75 euros but you got the refund.
You also have the item available, which should already have been in the seller’s hands.
Now the seller, after everything that has happened, once he has recovered I don’t think he will still want to have anything to do with this affair.
Which door should the seller knock on now?
On PayPal’s, which did not protect him
On eBay’s?
or
on the buyer’s, who did everything according to protocols and procedures?
If there are any updates, let us know.
Kind regards.
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoTo be honest, as I have been so far, when I sent the return I didn't check the truthfulness of the address PP gave me; I took it as correct since it was the address of an eBay office and not some random place. Even DHL (I went there in person, by the way) when it entered the recipient's details didn't add anything about it. And anyway, when I received DHL's email saying that the parcel was being held because of an incomplete address, I promptly contacted eBay asking for the exact address so I could add it, but I never got it. From there on I followed PayPal's instructions to the letter...
I ran a simulation with eBay shipping, and if I wanted to resend it at my own expense WITHOUT insurance it would cost 31 euros... I contacted PayPal and they advised me against doing it because in "n" days the seller could ask for the item back and I would be required to provide valid tracking proving the shipment right after the request. So now this hot potato is left to me. I’m of the opinion that if he wants a non-working item back, he should do everything possible to get it back; I’ve already lost time (which is money) and money (150 euros).
bye!
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoParcel just came back...
Now I'm waiting for the seller's move, who should just pay me the return label if they want the goods back
For now, silence 🤔
vonbalden
·2 years agoFor now all is silent 🤐 The salespeople of this century are very sparing with words. As already amply described on the forum, it is not easy to find loquacious figures. While it is extremely easy to run into all kinds of problems related to a sale or a purchase. Honestly, I believe that like so many other professions that have become obsolete, the salesperson no longer has much of a future ahead. Our area manager reminded me of that, sending out spirals of smoke from a cigarette, after the German multinational of which we were part as sales agents in Italy completely eliminated the sales networks. Too expensive, they said. Better one large authorized dealer for the north and one for southern Italy. And so it all ended after years of undisputed success. Then in turn many other industries did the same. After all, who listens to anything anymore? It's already a lot if you answer yes to the person you love when they ask if we want yesterday's leftover stew for dinner. While we have our eyes fixed on the cellphone.
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoHi
DHL delivered the item back to me yesterday.
The seller has gone back into no-comment mode, maybe he's waiting for instructions from eBay
I’ll avoid writing to him also because he was rude in the messages and in any case he knows the tracking number. He needs to take action if he wants the item back, I have no problem returning it to him. PayPal unfortunately told me not to do anything else... so I’m waiting for communication from eBay or the label
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoGood morning, good news.
Case closed in my favor, without even having received the item back 😮
Now I'm curious to see how things develop, since I should be receiving the package I sent out from DHL in the next few days
I think the seller will get in touch, or at least I hope so for his sake.
Unless he’s decided to lose everything 🙄
marioelegio
·2 years agoIf they contact you again, insist that they send a courier to pick up the item from your home at your convenience.
Then decide whether or not to show up for the appointment.
bye
mario
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoThere have been some developments 🤗
The seller has woken up from his coma / 10-day media silence...
This morning he contacted me via eBay private messages, telling me to return the card to him, because he saw from the DHL tracking that it was shipped to a company (eBay France, ndr) but is being sent back to the sender (me).
I wrote to him that I have no problem returning the item, but he must provide me with a shipping label since I have already paid out of pocket 75 euros (shipment to eBay France) + 75 euros (return to me due to incorrect address).
The problem is that he doesn't want to cooperate and wants me to pay for shipping (another 75 euros).
I contacted PayPal and they told me not to reply anymore and to let him "go" 😐 (I quote literally)
Basically, from what I could understand from his messages, he doesn't know that there was a PayPal case, which seems impossible to me, but he literally says:
"Why do you talk about Paypal? I haven't done anything with Paypal for this transaction. I don't know what information Paypal has given you about me, but it can be completely wrong since I haven't given them any information. Don't use paypal as an excuse. Simply ship the camera to the address given in my previous mail."
marioelegio
·2 years agoYou reply that, based on European consumer law (in Italy, Legislative Decree 205/06), the return shipping costs for non-conforming material are his responsibility. You write to him that, once refunded, you will keep his board in safekeeping for another 15 days and specify that, if he does not collect it (emphasize again at his expense) within that period, you will be forced to dispose of it. In this way, you free yourself from the obligation to keep it and avoid the possibility of a complaint for embezzlement.
Following your dispute, Paypal has taken the money back from ebay and so ebay will take it back from him. Since he did not reply to ebay within the correct time frame (indicating the return address), paypal had you send the material back to ebay.
hi
mario
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoHi
I think it went exactly as you said...
I believe that until the day before yesterday the seller was being sneaky by not responding to the emails/requests from eBay (I assume they sent him several emails about the ongoing dispute) or he underestimated the claim. He must have thought, "I won't provide the shipping address so the buyer can't send me the item and therefore won't get a refund." Anyway, I find it ridiculous that the eBay address provided by PayPal is inaccurate or incomplete and that they send packages all over the place 😆
I replied to him exactly as you suggested and told him to contact eBay support. I won't send anything unless he gives me a label, since I've already lost 150 euros in shipping. Worst case (if I'm forced to by eBay or PayPal, ndr) I'll send it the cheapest way in the world so it gets there (if it gets there) in 20 days 🤣
Anyway, this morning I already received the credit on Amex 😎
The funny thing is that he's convinced I won't get the money if he doesn't receive the board:
"I will not accept any refund to ebay or any other payment without the hardware in my hands. It is your duty to return it. You can't have the hardware AND the money. So, if you insist in keeping the hardware and not sending it I will not allow any refund at all."
I'll keep you updated
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoHe’s English and he sees things / thinks like an Englishman.
He doesn’t know he shipped to Italy, where things don’t work.....
And in fact, it really shouldn’t be possible for a buyer to keep both the item and the money....
When you opened the dispute on Paypal, the dialogue was handled with ebay, the seller wasn’t even considered.
The inefficiency / mistake was Paypal’s, since they told you to ship to an address without the street number.
Now you’ve spent money on reshipping that, because of Paypal, you won’t be reimbursed for.
The buyer did not get his item back and has lost the money.
Most likely, after this experience, he’ll stop dealing with international shipping.
I’m a seller, and what happened is pretty unsettling; if something like that happened to me I’d be seriously annoyed, because in a similar situation ebay and Paypal would do everything together with the buyer, and I’d end up effectively without the item and without the money.
And that’s why I try to describe the items sold as best I can, I try to pack them well, and I try to resolve any disputes directly without delegating to intermediaries who are limited / bound by strict protocols, Chinese boxes and siloed compartments.
Kind regards.
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoHello
I completely understand your words and your fears, which are also mine. Collecting all sorts of things, generally after a few years I get tired and usually I get rid of some pieces from my collections, pieces that I consider less important or that I have never used.
So I know what you mean, however I have never happened to run into a situation like that over who knows how many sales in 20 years of eBay (maybe a hundred), precisely because I would never sell an item with a hidden vice or defect; not least, I ship things bomb-proof... sometimes even spending a lot on packaging and choosing the courier. See, for example, the choice to use DHL to ship the eBay parcel that cost me 75 euros (I also insured it), I could have used BRT or Poste, or UPS (which is yes expensive but cheaper than DHL 24h) and instead I wanted the item to arrive at its destination intact and without problems in the shortest possible time.
I also find it incredible that someone can keep both the item and the money, but I fear it's not just an Italian problem, I think it's PayPal's policy. Anyway, if he wants the item back he can create a 15-euro label and I will certainly be happy and glad to send it back, also because for now it only takes up space in the attic 😃 I certainly have no intention of losing more money to make happy the seller who sent me an item that was untested or in any case not working.
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoHi everyone, after about 5 days there have been some updates that calling surreal would be an understatement 🤣
I ship the package with DHL 24h (€75) to the "eBay France" address provided to me by PayPal via email.
The following day DHL contacts me by email saying that delivery of the parcel isn’t possible because the address I provided does not include a street number or a mobile/landline phone number (to their credit, I have to say I had noticed that when I filled everything in, but as you know only the address PayPal sends you counts, and I copied it exactly as it was).
At the same time DHL tells me that the package will be held in storage, and unless the street number / phone number is added, it will be sent back to me after 14 days.
Just to be sure, I check on Google Maps and Apple Maps by entering the street name, and besides being miles long, it has a whole series of offices and homes, so it is practically impossible to find the eBay location online since there is no visible sign.
I contact eBay Italy and explain what happened; they tell me they can’t provide the street number or a phone contact for eBay France because they don’t have that information, and, in a completely unnecessary lecture from the operator, I should have shipped to the seller and not to eBay France... obviously I explain that I followed PayPal’s instructions to the letter since I was no longer protected by them as the 30 days had passed.
I contact PayPal by phone, and the kind operator, finally Italian (unlike eBay), tells me that for them everything is fine and the case will be closed in my favor as soon as the parcel is returned to me (unfortunately I’ll have to shell out another €75 for the return of the item to my address). She also tells me that they instructed me to ship to eBay because the seller did not respond to the claim and that’s how it works as standard practice.
So the seller has chosen to lose both money and the item, or is unable to respond, who knows... 😑
This morning I contact DHL and ask them to speed up the return delivery; I’m waiting for instructions from the courier. The package is currently being held in France. Unfortunately, this little stunt cost me €150 (for round-trip shipping)... then I’ll see how to handle this aspect, of course, still better than losing €1200.
I’ll keep you updated, and in total disappointment I’ll leave you here 😄
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoHi,
this morning the unexpected news, case resolved in my favor sooner than expected (April 15, editor's note)
I think the seller didn't even reply, so they accepted the "return"...
I didn't have to provide anything or any further evidence/expert reports.
I'll ship it on Tuesday, tracked and insured (even though I don't have an invoice or proof of purchase)
Thanks everyone for the advice
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoIt’s not that the seller didn’t reply; it’s that in this particular situation the seller counts for nothing.
It’s not a traditional eBay return procedure.
It’s not a traditional PayPal return procedure between a seller and a buyer.
Best regards.
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoHello,
Forgive me, but if that were the case then the whole PP procedure would be almost guaranteed to invite scams by bad-faith buyers... 🙄
Are you suggesting that the seller is completely at the mercy of the buyer's honesty?
I believe they may not have been able to prove that the item was intact or working before it was shipped to me.
have a good weekend
PS The strange thing is that I must have bought around 20 electronic items (cameras and lenses) from Japan, and NEVER, I mean never, had any problem. I buy 4 in Europe, and I run into 3 problems.
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoI booked the shipment with DHL, of course insured and with the recipient's signature on delivery
It cost me an arm and a leg, about 50 euros... oh well 😑
One curious thing: I had to send it not to the seller (whose address I don't know) but to eBay France... in the email received from PP where the instructions are, there is eBay France's shipping address
Regards
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoI consider eBay the most serious and most highly regulated platform in this regard.
It’s a good thing that you’re asked to resend the item to an eBay address, because the sender may not be so cooperative or may provide untruthful statements in an attempt to avoid the item being returned.
Unfortunately, the procedures governing chargebacks can differ significantly from bank to bank.
With PayPal the requests are standardized, so you usually encounter fewer problems.
Kind regards.
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoHello,
yes, in fact I’m of the same opinion as you; I’m glad that it has to be sent to eBay France and not to the seller, who, once they’ve received the package, could make up anything to avoid the “forced” return.
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoFrom your messages, it’s nice to see that ebay has patched things up.
In this way, the buyer can’t send a brick or some sand to the seller 😎
Kind regards.
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoI just opened the PayPal dispute for:
"I received an item or service different from, or not as described"
For now the automated system has only asked me to provide proof that I contacted the seller.
Besides, of course, explaining what happened etc.
The seller should respond by April 4, 2024
If in doubt, I’m going to give AMEX a call too to figure out how to proceed (I’ve never done a chargeback in 10 years of having the card) as a last resort...
I’ll let you know as soon as I have news.
actar80
·2 years agoDon’t mix the two things together, at this point you need to patiently wait for Paypal’s decisions, follow the progress of the complaint.
It’s pointless to contact Amex about a possible chargeback; if you get someone not very sharp responding to you (say they open the case without really listening to you that much), you risk ending up in a mess that, honestly, I think will be much harder to get out of.
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoBe careful how you proceed because AMEX might initially accept your chargeback (as a generic case submission) and then, after a more thorough review of the payment, reject the chargeback, arguing that the transaction was handled by PayPal and therefore you need to open a dispute through them.
Every bank uses different systems and methods regarding chargebacks, so make sure you find out everything first.
Be careful not to open an AMEX chargeback request that then ends up closing / canceling the PayPal case you opened until you are absolutely sure that, if anything, this company’s chargeback policies bypass PayPal.
Because otherwise you risk ending up with nothing.
Best regards.
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoThanks for the valuable advice 😊
I just had a chat with a kind Amex representative... she basically told me to wait for PayPal's decision (presumably by April 15), and if it's unfavorable, contact them for the defective / non-compliant item chargeback.
bye!
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoPerfect!!
The AMEX representative advised you correctly.
👍
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoHello,
If the PayPal transaction were to be resolved in my favor (which I hope)... my partner has raised some doubts in me (women and their overthinking, eh!).
I was wondering whether, at the time of shipping the card, I have any form of protection in case the seller, upon receiving it, claims that inside the package there is a Mediterranean stone or a packet of Italian salt. I'm just trying to understand the situation without getting too worked up, since I've never dealt with anything like this. The seller could make up anything after receiving the package; after losing the dispute or to try to prove his alleged good faith.
Thanks
PS For now the seller has provided no response to PayPal, I just checked the case in the PP resolution center
actar80
·2 years agoLook, the thing is always hanging by a thread, since you’ll both have your own version of the facts. Usually, the way PayPal is set up, it should side with the buyer, but if you really want to be precise, get your partner to help you by filming a video of the packing and sealing stage, and film in that same video the already filled-out shipping form placed on the package, with the recipient and sender details clearly visible, making sure to capture the tracking code that after you ship you need to enter on PayPal.
Videos only go so far, but claiming you even have a video like that could give more weight to your words in any possible discussion with the PayPal operator.
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoThanks, I’ll keep you updated 😊
For now no response from the seller...
On Monday, if there’s no reply, I’ll open a PayPal dispute
Have a great weekend and thanks for the clear information!
vonbalden
·2 years agoThere is no doubt that many salespeople around are laconic. Back in the day, salespeople, especially
if they were traveling sales agents or door-to-door salesmen, were quick-tongued and had a smile from ear to ear. Meanwhile, the potential buyers were the passive ones. Almost intimidated by the verbal exuberance in describing or promoting the item. What a gab ! But it was another world with different figures. Today the seller has lost that air of confidence of the past. Even those who aped the manner of the classic American real-estate salesman, brazen, always unflappable, have long since backed down. The salesman (they say) has become a blurred character, perhaps insecure, often inclined to rely on the offer and on pity to close a sale. At the first request for clarification he fears the worst, withdraws into his shell, hesitates, stammers something and disappears. Good times when salespeople knew everything about what they were offering. A kind of deus ex machina ready with any answer. But as was said before, those were glorious times. Far away now. Best, von.
marioelegio
·2 years agoYou can open a dispute on PayPal's site, you have 180 days from the purchase to open one, but return shipping costs will be on you.
hi
mario
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoThanks Mario,
I’ll wait a few days first (let the weekend pass) hoping the seller replies... (I can guess the response). He’ll have a fit 😑 just like I did when I found out it doesn’t work 🤣
Do you recommend PayPal or going straight to an Amex dispute?
Bye!
marioelegio
·2 years agoWith PayPal you have 180 days, with the card 12 months. For this reason I would personally start with PayPal and keep the possibility of a chargeback as a last resort.
hi
mario
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoThanks Mario,
I’ll try with PayPal then, and if necessary Amex 🤗
Just to be safe... do I tell PayPal that the item does not match the description and, above all, is defective?!
I’m also an occasional seller, and I imagine this can be really annoying, on the other hand I’ve got a clear conscience and I’m the injured party (I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and think he didn’t even have a chance to test it before putting it up for sale).
What are the chances the dispute will go in my favor?!
tnx
marioelegio
·2 years agoWith PayPal you can request a refund only for non-compliance.
Almost always, when in doubt, they decide in favor of the buyer.
hi
mario
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoGood morning sharkrunner1982
Let's say that ebay gives 30 days to open a complaint case, so if a buyer lets these terms pass, they should take responsibility for it.
The problem is that ebay is not totally transparent / indifferent to buyers who open disputes after the deadline and outside the platform with paypal / credit card.
So expect that this action will AT LEAST be recorded on the account.
Maybe the first time nothing will happen to you (but given the high amount I wouldn't bet on it) because if ebay can't recover this money from the seller, it will initially have to pay it out of its own pocket, then maybe it will try to recover it from the seller.
If the seller uses a card account with automatic debit where, for every bank transfer received, the amount is moved to a second current account, leaving the one used for ebay always at zero .... I'll let you imagine...
Up to 30 days, ebay probably takes on these "risks" but beyond 30 days it could even decide to exclude the buyer from the platform because they do not comply with the rules.
Anyway, this aspect of the matter is internal to ebay and not officially documented, and several users suggest opening disputes outside ebay as if this were a routine ebay practice.
If everything were this TRANSPARENT, ebay would offer 180 days just as paypal does or 13 months just as visa/mastercard networks do. 😎
Good luck.
Best regards.
sharkrunner1982
OP2 years agoI understand perfectly and I will accept from eBay's side (also because I couldn't do otherwise, hihihi) whatever decision they make about my account 🤗
Alas, I cannot avoid carrying forward the dispute against the seller both for the amount at stake and because I consider myself the injured party, even though I did not immediately test the product due to unavailability; the item was de facto shipped with a hidden defect or flaw.
eBay is becoming a minefield not only for those who sell (with protection equal to zero), but also for those who buy... in the last year they have sold me 3 "duffs", one of them significant (this one, the subject of our discussion).
At least buyers can boast several protections (through eBay guarantee, PayPal, and chargeback); when I sell something I always sweat cold, despite being an extremely meticulous seller, super precise to the point of pathology bordering on psychiatry.
Hi and happy Palm Sunday to everyone, I’ll keep you updated
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoI joined the discussion for informational purposes.
The buyer makes the PayPal payment to eBay, which then sends the money to the seller via a bank transfer.
So any PayPal dispute will eventually be opened against eBay, which will then have to seek reimbursement from the seller.
If you’d like, let us know how the dispute progresses.
Best regards.