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Buyer requests a refund or return on a console over a detail
I sold a New 3DS as like new, and so far so good, the buyer is asking for a 40% refund because, in his opinion, the upper screen is not IPS as I had stated in the description after comparing it with another of his consoles.
Since I did not accept his refund request or the return, he told me he will open a dispute on eBay.
I should point out that I spontaneously offered to return €30 solely to close the matter, while specifically saying that it was not owed, but for now he has not accepted.
I should also note that the issue of IPS screens on new 3DS consoles was never stated by Nintendo but arose on forums. In short, there are some new 3DS consoles that have slightly better LCD panels. From this it is assumed that some were fitted with better viewing angles and sharper colors. The new 3DS console has two screens, with two different resolutions and normally with a different viewing angle, which is why people on forums talk about IPS screens.
The upper screen of the console I sold is clearly better than the lower one, and even when tilting the console the text remains readable, which is why I indicated that it has an IPS upper screen, even though it is original and therefore the screens were never replaced.
Nothing to object to about the condition, perfect as it is, but he is being picky about this IPS screen thing.
Assuming I would have done better not to mention this difference at all since it is a debatable thing, how should I handle it?
If he officially asks for the return, should I accept it or could it be grounds for a refund?
In the event of a return, since he is a user from the United Kingdom (with only 6 feedback), who pays any return customs duties?
Thanks everyone and sorry for all the questions.
arcade-r
OP3 years agoAfter a lot of back and forth, eBay uk is basically agreeing with me, saying that for them the listing was compliant, but they still tell me that I have to accept the return, at my expense, because otherwise they’ll have to refund the buyer the full amount. In the meantime, the buyer replies to me saying that if I had waited, then a partial refund as agreed would have been enough... in short, he tried to play smart right until the end and it’s still not over. Of course I reported the buyer because he took advantage of eBay’s protection guarantee to try to steal.
cizeta1964
Mentore3 years agoanyway, they’re telling me I have to accept the return, at my expense, because otherwise they’ll have to refund the buyer the full amount.
Exactly as you were told, no preconceptions then...
arcade-r
OP3 years agoI was told that too and I figured that was the case, but percentages, eBay rules, Italian laws... were being brought into it.
From what has been seen in practice, anyone who sells on eBay should clearly know that regardless of everything else, (lies told by the buyer, and regulations), a return request motivated by non-compliance will be enough, and the seller will have to accept the refund; therefore the same "pseudo dispute" procedure is completely unnecessary.
I’ll update the post if there are any useful developments, so maybe it can help others.
arcade-r
OP3 years agoAnd this last photo refers to his console with which he did the comparison
I’d say that’s everything, I’ll read a few more comments and then I’ll see what to do.
Thanks.
sika700
Mentore3 years agoFrom my point of view... it seems you don't want to understand... if the buyer opens a return request, whatever case you put forward, photos, videos, descriptions... won't be of any use... eBay's decision will be based exclusively on what happened and the request opened, so... I repeat... in 99% of cases the buyer wins.
So I'd say make peace with it and assess the least damage possible for you...
Kind regards.
arcade-r
OP3 years agoThe user took this one
arcade-r
OP3 years agohttps://www.chiarini.com/garanzia-per-vizi-vendita/
As clearly indicated in the article mentioned, defects or non-conformities should be substantial in relation to the use for which the item is intended; by law, this dispute does not hold up.
It’s not that I want to be right, I’m trying to get a clear idea of the standard of assessment used on eBay in similar cases, and therefore whether, in the end, every return request will actually be worth accepting, regardless...
Among other things, what I find absurd is that since the sale is covered by the eBay guarantee, if I accepted the return, I would also have to take on the return shipping costs by buying him the shipping label.
In any case, I’m grateful for the replies I’ve already received.
I’m attaching the two comparison photos that the user sent me (the white console is his), plus a photo I had taken. In the photo taken by the user, the console I sold him is positioned more vertically than his and, of course, the viewing angle changes too... Anyway, I think I’m definitely going to report him for fraud.
marioelegio
Mentore3 years agoHere you really didn't read what was written to you. The eBay customer guarantee has nothing to do with it. If the non-conformity is accepted, it is Italian law (the civil code) that establishes that the return is at your expense.
bye
mario
arcade-r
OP3 years agoYou shouldn’t quote Italian law at random, I understand that you don’t seem to have a legal background; under the law (as stated by the Court of Cassation), the nonconformity must be such as to affect the usability of the item itself, which is not the case here, and in any case the nonconformity would be established by a judge, after which the return costs would be borne by the seller.
In any case, by law the burden of proof lies with whoever claims defects and nonconformities, precisely to avoid scams...
Just as the burden of proof lies with whoever claims that one of their rights has been infringed.
So let’s not confuse eBay’s possible rules and standards of judgment with the law.
Thank you all anyway for the replies received, you were kind and helpful, I contacted eBay support, which explained to me the various stages that follow, and how a "dispute" over a return request develops,.
In fact, not a real dispute, but I should try to formally request a refund within 3 days, after which the ball passes to the buyer, and if they do not accept, I would have another three days to respond and finally a decision will be made by the eBay UK section, since the shipment was sent to London.
"}cizeta1964
Mentore3 years agoAnd finally a decision will be made by eBay UK...
The problem is exactly this, eBay sides 99.9% with the buyer, and could even decide to refund them without your consent and - above all - without any obligation to return the item
arcade-r
OP3 years agoTrue, but at that point the unjustified damage would be caused by eBay, and I’d have to sue eBay. Not to mention that if a decision were made regardless of the facts and the reasons given, based only on a refund request, that wouldn’t even be legal and it should at least be made known to new sellers among the terms of sale... I hope things turn out differently.
cizeta1964
Mentore3 years agoIf you read the countless discussions on the matter in the community, you’ll realize that it practically always ends up the way I told you and the way the person before me told you. Don’t expect anything more from eBay, whether it’s illegal or not.
sika700
Mentore3 years agoYou accepted eBay’s "legality" when you registered on the marketplace and when you explicitly accepted its rules... called the "User Agreement"... nobody reads it, but then everyone complains...
We’ve been telling you since yesterday that things will NOT go differently!
Best regards.
arcade-r
OP3 years agoI thank you @Sika700 and @cizeta1974, but you’re all repeating the same point “in chorus” more because of a widespread basic bias, “99.9% of the time they’ll always side with the buyer no matter the reasons given,” than because of any real knowledge of the rules.
I’ve used eBay for many years, as well as different platforms like Amazon.
Taking a look at eBay’s “user agreement” you’ll discover that in reality it says something completely different from what’s being repeated here in chorus, and by that I’m not saying that the practice or the trend is different, but that basically some things aren’t said, or they’re different from how one assumes they are.
Small excerpt:
2. eBay Money Back Guarantee program
As a seller, you are subject to the buyer protection rules (if any) of the eBay sites on which your items are sold. In addition, you authorize eBay to resolve any dispute arising between you and the buyer by the means provided by those rules, by law, and by principles of equity including buyer reimbursement, fund reversals, and recovery of billed amounts...”
On Amazon I would expect certain practices; after all, a good chunk of its marketing has also been based on the possibility of returns, but it’s a site that mainly sells new products, with professional sellers, so different laws also apply, such as the right of withdrawal (excluded for certain goods and for sales between private individuals), which already in itself gives you the right to “change your mind” about the purchase you made within a certain number of days.
eBay, on the other hand, was born as a site for selling used products, between private individuals.
As long as PayPal was used, disputes were opened there too, but you had to provide proof that the item had not been shipped or that it was actually different from what was requested, etc.
In this specific case, I haven’t violated any regulations, since the listing was perfectly legal and compliant with what was actually sold and received by the buyer.
The buyer seems to be starting to doubt that things will go the way he hoped, and maybe wants to wrap things up amicably.
For me he still remains a bit of a scammer, but if it ends quickly that’s fine.
In private messages he asked me for a refund and I agreed to it on the condition that he first closes the dispute he opened, we’ll see tomorrow what he does...
arcade-r
OP3 years agoSo even if the listing is marked as a private sale, and the listing explicitly says that the seller does not accept returns, would it in practice always be better for me to accept the return?
In this case, the user is clinging to something debatable and, above all, to an unofficial mention, since the original product makes no mention or distinction in this regard, except for the pixel resolution, which is the same for everyone as stated by the manufacturer.
In cases like this, can I report the user in question, do you think there are grounds for it?
sika700
Mentore3 years agoThe return you can refuse is only for buyer's remorse... returns for item not as described can never be refused, even for private sales... so yes, you should accept it for the reasons stated above.
Also, what would you report?
Having no evidence to back it up, it will be your word against theirs and in these situations eBay is 99% likely to side with the buyer.
Kind regards.
marioelegio
Mentore3 years agoThere are no grounds for reporting it.
In the event of non-compliance, the right to return the item at no cost is established by the civil code. Whatever you may have written in the listing is irrelevant.
You’re the one who wrote in the listing that the screen is IPS, so the buyer can claim the opposite and declare the item not as described. Ebay isn’t able to tell which one of you is right and will 99.9% side with the buyer.
Follow Sika’s advice, arrange to collect the item at your own expense, and minimize the damage.
hi
mario
arcade-r
OP3 years agoThank you for the advice, but let me try to explain better: we’re talking about an original console sold as new, with no defects or missing parts. Officially, all the consoles have the same resolution, as stated by Nintendo. Among enthusiasts, some discussions have come up (only a handful of people, there’s very little online about the topic) where differences in the viewing angle are pointed out, even with the same model. I won’t go into further detail because I wouldn’t be adding anything new. But if I sell an original console as new, and someone makes a fuss over a nitpicky issue about something subjective and unofficial, from a legal standpoint I have serious doubts that it would carry any weight, since it’s not a console I produced myself, it’s an official product, so anyone who wanted to could simply go look up all the specifications on Nintendo’s website, and whether it’s IPS or not is based on comparing it with another similar model of a different color.
marioelegio
Mentore3 years agoWhoever is called on to judge won’t be splitting hairs. They’ll see two opposing claims with different versions and won’t even bother reading what you write.
If you haven’t reached an agreement, it will almost certainly side with the buyer.
bye
mario
arcade-r
OP3 years agoThe thing is that there was no discrepancy between what I put in the listing and what he received. In my listing there were also 20 photos and in one you can see the console turned on with a photo intentionally taken from the side. The buyer sent me photos taken by him, where you could clearly see that the top screen had excellent viewing angles even from the side, especially compared to the bottom screen (I indicated that only the top screen is IPS). Instead, during the dispute he wrote that the open screen looked completely white, whereas with an IPS screen that is not the case, by taking a crappy photo, and thus stating false things. I will wait for a few more opinions, then I think that if I have no chance of winning the dispute I will accept the return, hoping I won't have to pay the customs duties too.
marioelegio
Mentore3 years agoThe return should be exempt from duties and VAT; the important thing is to fill out the waybill correctly.
https://www.sace.it/education/esperto-risponde/dettaglio-esperto/reso-merci-in-esenzione-dazi-e-iva
hi
mario
sika700
Mentore3 years agoGood evening,
if the buyer opens a return request for an item not as described (whatever the reason, whether arguable or not), you won’t have much choice between accepting the return, offering him the partial refund he asked for, or doing nothing, but in this case you risk losing both money and the item.
If you therefore accept to take the item back, the return costs and any customs duties will be entirely at your expense, after which you will have to fully refund the buyer.
So carefully consider what to do, in order to minimize the damage.
Kind regards.