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Mandatory return: a correct eBay decision?
Hello.
Two months ago I put a painting up for sale.
An oil painting signed Giovanni Lomi, without certification.
My listing settings are clear: no returns accepted.
A user buys the painting and pays for it.
I ship it.
A few days later, the buyer sends me a message:
"Good evening, I received the painting, but in person it is absolutely a fake. I also had it looked at by an expert at a gallery, who confirmed it. So I am asking for a return."
At this point ebay blocks my funds and opens a dispute, at the end of which it sides with the buyer, and therefore forces me to accept the return of the painting.
What do you think... was that the right decision?
Thank you
13 comments
sika700
Mentore2 years agoOf course, as a seller you can't avoid accepting return requests for an item that is not as described (and a fake is not as described!), whatever the reason... you can only refuse return requests for a change of mind.
Kind regards.
limesc75
OP2 years agoExcuse me, but why do you assume the item is fake? There is no appraisal.
It is the same item, which seen in the photo gave the buyer a positive impression, and seen in person gives them a negative one.
marioelegio
Mentore2 years agoThe item was sold as a work by Lomi, not as a probable attribution to……
So if the buyer thinks it’s a fake, they have the right to return it to me at your expense. This is pursuant to art. 1490 and following of the civil code.
If you don’t pick it up within the time limits that ebay makes available to you, you will probably lose both money and the item.
hello
mario
limesc75
OP2 years agoThat's wrong, the item was sold without certification and without documentation. You can't ask me for a certificate of authenticity, since I'm a private individual and I have no authority to issue certificates of authenticity. It is up to the buyer to understand whether an uncertified item has potential and is worth buying (maybe at a favorable price, precisely because there is no documentation). This happens in all markets in the world. You buy a work hoping to score a coup. But demanding all the guarantees of certification where no certification exists makes no sense. Otherwise, what are certifications for? Certifications are the only tool that can give the buyer the certainty of being in front of an authentic work. If the authentication isn't there, it isn't there. You can't expect all the advantages of authenticity from works without authenticity.
cizeta1964
Mentore2 years agoWork signed by the artist at the bottom right.
limesc75
OP2 years agoAnd in fact it's signed Giovanni Lomi and the signature is compatible with Lomi's autographs, what am I supposed to say, that someone signed as Giovanni Lomi?
marioelegio
Mentore2 years agoYou just don’t want to understand.
The guarantee that what you describe in the listing is what you sell is required by law.
If you say that the painting is by …. then you’ll be the one required to guarantee it.
For that reason, any platform and any payment system will force you to refund the buyer.
It’s up to you to decide whether to cooperate and limit the damage or try to oppose it and lose everything, commissions included.
bye
mario
limesc75
OP2 years agoWhat does it mean to "guarantee" that a painting is by Lomi? There is only one possible guarantee, and that is authentication. And I don't see any authentications here. Can I start authenticating paintings myself?
The paintings you find around, do you find them with certification documents or with the little note from the dealer or antique seller who sold them? Have you ever seen a painting certified by a dealer?
Incidentally, according to your logic, the seller would always have to accept returns. And that's not the case. It's ebay itself that allows you to select the rule "No returns accepted"
In your opinion, why should a seller set this rule? (Which is the one I chose)
limesc75
OP2 years agoI'll add: but I'm sure to lose everything. That's not the issue anymore. I'm contesting a decision that deep down I feel is unfair. When the buyer asked for a refund, eBay blocked my funds even before asking for my side of the story. Whatever it was, my side of the story didn't count for anything.
marioelegio
Mentore2 years agoIn my opinion, the decision is absolutely correct.
If you're selling a vintage designer handbag, you don't necessarily have to include purchase receipts and/or a certificate of authenticity. The fact that the seller doesn't attach documents proving its authenticity doesn't mean the seller is stating that it might also be fake.
If an item turns out to be different from what is stated in the listing, the buyer has the right to return it, regardless of the seller's wishes.
Without these basic rules, no one would trust buying remotely.
bye
mario
sika700
Mentore2 years agoBut do you have proof that you can declare otherwise?
You wrote: "without certification" so anyone who opens a claim against you for a non-compliant item, the procedure is the one that was submitted to you.
Nothing new... whether you think it's right or not!
Kind regards.
limesc75
OP2 years agoand anyway we're already at the next step, my debt to eBay is being handed over to a debt collection agency. I just hope that sooner or later eBay will let me delete the account.
being right or wrong doesn't matter in the slightest, because the platform automatically favors the buyer's side. it doesn't even listen to you. for sure, that doesn't help you stay calm.
I'm not an appraiser, I'm not even a professional seller, I'm a private individual who sells (used to sell) a few items over the course of a year, often without even really understanding what I was selling.
and selling wasn't easy, in a market like that you had to set low prices, really low. Oh well. I'll get to know debt collection agencies a bit better. Regards