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maximum time for the buyer to open a complaint
What is the maximum time after which a seller can feel safe from having problems with the buyer and risking losing the money (and sometimes even the item)?
I’m asking because, reading in the eBay community, I see that on eBay’s side they talk about 45 days, as far as I can tell (perhaps a bit excessive, but something you can reason about), but then I read that if the buyer paid with PayPal (as a seller, do I have a way of knowing what they paid with? eBay sends me the money) they have up to 180 days to file a claim. This seems crazy to me: if a buyer pays with PayPal and then five and a half months later files a complaint, you find yourself forced to “defend” yourself over issues that maybe they don’t even remember or have any trace of anymore.
I’ll give you a concrete example: at the end of November I sell a port replicator (Dell brand) NEW. In the first days of February the buyer writes to tell me that it doesn’t work and that, contrary to what I had written in the listing, it was not compatible with a certain Dell laptop model and that this was also stated on Dell’s own website.
I check Dell’s website and it clearly says it is compatible, and I suggest the buyer some tests to carry out in order to identify the problem. I also ask why they tested the product more than 2 months after receiving it, getting the reply that “I still had to buy the laptop, which only arrived now.”
They threaten me with negative feedback (the usual blackmail where all the right is on the buyer’s side), but fortunately 45 days have passed, so they think of taking it up with PayPal.
Fortunately, from the problems they report, I understand that they simply connected the Port Replicator to a USB port on the laptop that wasn’t fast enough, I suggest changing ports and everything gets resolved.
But if I hadn’t identified the problem, could they have reported a false problem, gotten their money back, and returned a used product to me when in fact they had received it new and working? And maybe after five and a half months?
Is that really how things are? For 6 months do you have to live under the Sword of Damocles of an inexperienced or dishonest buyer? If so, I wonder what the point is of paying more than 5% commission to eBay; if there is no oversight and protection, you might as well turn to the Wild West of a free marketplace
tosec
OP3 years agook, but what kind of checks does PayPal or the bank do in the event of a chargeback? is it enough for someone to say "item not as described" and they, without any verification and without breaking a sweat, refund the buyer? because if the answer is YES, I'll take note of it and behave accordingly when I act as a buyer. Let's say it's a great way to scam people.
based on which article of the civil code would a private seller who sells a new item be required to provide a legal warranty?
regarding eBay showcase, at this point it's better to pay 0 on stuff like subito or Facebook Marketplace, more than a 5% commission (a commission that is also calculated on shipping costs, another slick move...) I don't think it justifies eBay's greater visibility
last question: how do I know how the buyer paid me? (bank transfer, PayPal, credit card, etc...) since this information is not provided to me by eBay?
marioelegio
Mentore3 years agoNo one can check, in the absence of evidence they almost always side with the buyer. If they notice that the buyer is taking advantage and keeps opening disputes, they ban them.
Based on art. 1490 Civil Code. The seller is required to guarantee that the item sold is free from defects that make it unsuitable for the use for which it is intended or significantly reduce its value.
On those sites, the buyer doesn’t have many guarantees and only buys if it’s really worth the risk, at a bargain price. In any case, they too are adapting to Amazon and ebay standards and are starting to mediate payments.
Paypal or credit card (other options are not allowed).
hi
mario
tosec
OP3 years agoThanks for the response. Art. 1490 of the Civil Code does not imply the concept of warranty as we understand it (and as it is applied by commercial law when I buy, for example, a new product from a shop). that article also applies to used products and still places a burden on the buyer to prove that the product was defective from the start.
on the fact that the buyer is almost always right except when he’s “playing the system” (so surely the first few times he tries it no one will say anything to him) it almost seems like “you can play 2 wild cards, use them well.”
at this point if I found myself dealing with some fraudulent buyer I’d have to give in and recover what I lost from another innocent seller (who then might in turn do the same with another seller). Basically, in a sort of far west with few rules, everyone looks out for themselves at the expense of others.
marioelegio
Mentore3 years agoArticle 1490 does not refer to the legal warranty of the professional seller (the one you call the store warranty governed by 206/05), the conformity warranty under the civil code is an obligation of all sellers. You are getting the warranties and defects very mixed up; the burden of proof you refer to is the legal warranty after the first 6 months (let's go back to 206/05).
In the civil code there is the seller's breach (1453, 1218 c.c.) while in the case of delivery of a good completely different from the one agreed upon, art.1453 et seq. c.c. applies).
In case of contractual non-performance art.1218 c.c., the debtor is liable for the non-performance of an obligation if he does not prove that it is due to a cause not attributable to him. So as you can see, the burden of proof is yours.
The so-called contractual liability has a specific model based on a clear favor creditoris, since the creditor only needs to prove in court the credit title on which the claim is based and the consequential damage resulting from the non-performance, as provided by art.1223 c.c. So the creditor just has to ask for damages from ebay and it is you who must prove your innocence. As you can see, these are not ebay rules but the foundations of Italian law.
hi
mario
sika700
Mentore3 years agoAnd I would add that on any site where Paypal or any credit card can be used, the problems described above are unavoidable... so this is not an issue limited to ebay... therefore there is no difference in knowing which payment method the buyer used.
Best regards.
tosec
OP3 years agothanks for the answer. as I already wrote, I’ll have to adapt to the world of "the shrewdest wins" and be shrewd myself in turn.
sika700
Mentore3 years agoHello,
it may seem excessive to you, but you can only be truly safe AFTER 13 months from the sale... and I'll explain why:
As for the item sold, if you declare it NEW, the buyer can demand the warranty from you... even though as a private seller you can't provide it (so be careful about selling NEW items!).
If you also have clear messages indicating a threat of negative feedback, you can have it removed by support.
Also, on eBay you pay the fee for using the site... it's a showcase, eBay doesn't sell anything... so you can't expect legal protection from eBay itself for these issues...
So, what is described is how things stand.
Kind regards.