EPR... Lucid and various devilry, let's talk about it
Summary: The discussion titled "EPR...Lucid and assorted devilry, let’s talk about it" involves multiple exchanges between the participants, who discuss various topics related to EPR and Lucid, although the specific content of the messages is not detailed. The participants seem to maintain an ongoing exchange over time, but no specific information is provided about the points or conclusions addressed.
I am a small professional seller of vintage used collectible items. I’m trying to figure out whether the new measures to “protect” the environment, which would make us pay a disposal fee for the lifecycle of each item we would sell in Europe, apply only to factory-new products or also to used items. It’s clear that, on top of the Italian tax burden, if we start adding an annual fee for every European country in which we happen to sell, it would cripple us. Does anyone have more precise information?
themycia
·1 year agoagentcat11 it’s useless to argue with marioelegio because he’s not a seller and so he can’t even imagine what the topic is about - for months this issue has been driving people crazy and anyway the German LUCID is not paid for right now, mario doesn’t know since he doesn’t sell, in fact ..... you have to go over 10,000 items sold in Germany to start paying - signing up is super easy - whereas for France it’s incredibly complicated and they ask 80 euros a year for this thing, again without exceeding a certain number of shipments and I mean.... if only I could sell 10,000 items to Germany and 10,000 to France and so on - the absurdity of all this is that this should be the united European community and instead everything is paid separately and more and more, besides polluting more and more anyway. We in vintage are the only ones who really recycle endlessly, doing the planet a favor, but they lump us together with people who buy 25 pairs of shoes on amazon and send back 20 because they don’t even know what shoe size they wear.... endless sadness....
agentcat11
OP1 year agoThanks for the reply, it’s reassuring to compare notes at least with someone sailing in the same waters....Lucid is free, but as far as I know you then have to sign up with one of the authorized agencies to buy the sort of license that lets you ship to Germany...like Landbell and Reclav, and that’s where you then have to pay an annual fee even if you ship very little...
Did you sign up?
vonbalden
·1 year agoLucid is a German registry, a database where you have to register if you want to ship any kind of goods to Germany to meet the needs of end consumers. Manufacturers are considered to be companies that ship items that are packaged with Deutschland as the destination. It is necessary to obtain a code to certify that you will pay the tax. And to get the code you have to register on the German Lucid website, (packaging register). But.... as the professional seller Themycia pointed out, this procedure is only the beginning of a Chinese puzzle where at every step further doubts, questions, or necessary clarifications arise. Our country, in my view, should have given its consent through a national referendum on the interest of joining the European Community or not. Exactly as was proposed to Great Britain, which unanimously answered: No. But here that is unthinkable, because decisions for the good or interest of the nation have always been made behind the scenes. The European Community seems to have a cylinder overflowing with initiatives of every kind that do not seem to ease the problems that afflict us, if anything the opposite. And that is a shame. Because we are in an enviable strategic position and second to none. Best regards from von
agentcat11
OP1 year agoYes, thanks to you too for the contribution... Question: do German sellers who ship to Italy also have to pay an Italian Lucid? Assuming I find this tax absurd, when a buyer purchases from an Italian seller, they’ll dispose of the package themselves... and then if we’re talking about paper and cardboard, the German waste disposal system will recycle it! Or... maybe a tax like that should instead be charged to sellers dealing in huge goods... I don’t know... machinery or things whose packaging aspect is more complicated. to manage for the country receiving the shipment...
should I have to pay, me who sells vintage stuff 20 times a year in Germany that comes in a package like a shoebox? Me, a small seller crushed by eBay taxes, taxes to the Italian tax office, INPS and the Chamber of Commerce? But who can manage to pay additional taxes!
If all the European countries each demand to charge you their tax on disposal of your parcels, you end up with a bill of 10,000 euros a year. Better to just retreat to the mountains and make an independent village based on barter.
And anyway... did you then join Lucid?
vonbalden
·1 year agoIt's been a while since I last sold abroad. It's too complicated. In previous years I had decent opportunities with English buyers, all of them collectors. Recently a memorabilia collector from New Jersey, USA bought an old driver's license from me. Even though I don't offer international shipping, he asked me for a favor. And I gladly agreed. The little package was really tiny! The idea of bartering isn't bad at all. Unfortunately, what interests me isn't...very common. But that's another matter. For the moment, try to focus more on sales within national borders. There's always time to change course.
marioelegio
·1 year agoFor Germany ..... https://www.prontoprofessionista.it/articoli/b2b-e-b2c-arrivata-la-nuova-fase-sull-obbligo-di-registrazione.html?author=f
Any item sold with packaging that is produced or imported in Germany is subject to this tax on the subsequent disposal of the packaging. So if, as a professional, you export to Germany, even vintage items, you are subject to this tax (since, together with the item, you are certainly exporting the packaging that will then have to be disposed of).
For France I imagine it works more or less the same way.
bye
mario
agentcat11
OP1 year agoWith Lucid Germany, it's clear to me: you pay an annual fee to Germany for packaging management. But here things are getting more complex, and I'm referring to paying a fee for each European country for the management of every item sold to European buyers, to handle the object's entire life cycle. I didn't understand whether this refers only to new products or also to old used and collectible items. Paying every fee for every European country would bring small sellers, already hammered by the Italian tax authorities, to their knees.
marioelegio
·1 year agoI suppose these regulations will work like the German one, that is, you pay on new items sold there or on imported items (including used or vintage ones).
After all, on an imported product the end-of-life fee has not been paid, so it has to be paid when it enters that country.
hi
mario
agentcat11
OP1 year agoExcuse me, but if I sell an old collectible item to a French person, for example, what end-of-life fee should be charged to me? You don’t know if or when the buyer will ever throw it away. If one day the buyer gets rid of it, then they’ll pay it eventually. Just like if I buy an item from Europe and it ends up being thrown away, I pay the waste tax. In my opinion, common sense is being lost here. A small online seller with Italian tax burden plus an additional tax burden for each European country to pay a supposed future end-of-life levy on the item—I’m telling you, they’ll have to shut down. And eBay will end up going too, along with everyone who closes their account.
Best regards
marioelegio
·1 year agoLucid refers to the packaging and not the product.
the tax is paid by packaging manufacturers in that country and therefore it is assumed that paper, cardboard etc.... used to package that product by domestic manufacturers and sellers has already been taxed at the source. It is a burden on manufacturers because they buy packaging that has already been taxed for its disposal.
If, on the other hand, you export to that country, your packaging has not been taxed and therefore its disposal is your responsibility.
Try reading the article I had attached to you about Lucid in Germany and you will see that the concept will be clear to you.
ciao
mario
agentcat11
OP1 year agoEPR refers to the items sold and to the responsibility that one would want to assign to the seller for their life cycle, even though ownership passes to the buyer. That said, as far as Germany is concerned I’ve already ruled it out; besides, we pay for packaging here, and those too should logically be the buyer’s responsibility when it comes to disposal. For now, my accountant tells me that EPR would not concern the type of goods I deal in. We’ll see how things develop.
marioelegio
·1 year agoSure? I wouldn’t trust too much what your accountant told you. EPR regulations cover everything, both the product and the packaging. You’re not responsible for the first, but you are for the second.
....... France, Germany and Spain (ed.) were the first European countries to have transposed the directives concerning EPR regulations, introducing specific obligations in the management of packaging and waste from certain product categories.
The EPR regulations involve e-commerce sites and marketplaces, because they don’t concern only those who produce the products, but also those who import them for the first time into a new market.
Failure by sellers to comply with EPR regulations can lead not only to penalties from the competent authorities, but also to the suspension of sales by marketplaces.....
...... The EPR Regulation directly concerns all owners of e-commerce sites that sell in Europe. At the moment, EU Directive 2018/851 and EU Directive 2018/852 have now been implemented in Germany, France and Spain (ed.), but soon the obligations on packaging and waste will also concern the other Member States, including Italy.
(from: https://www.agendadigitale.eu/mercati-digitali/ecommerce/gestione-dei-rifiuti-come-funziona-la-responsabilita-estesa-del-produttore-per-i-siti-ecommerce/)
https://www.ebay.it/help/account/regulatory/understanding-extended-producer-responsibility-ebay?id=5482
hello
mario