Sale of used personal belongings and tax return
Summary: The discussion concerns the topic of selling used personal items and the related implications for income tax returns. Several participants, including valetan84, sika700, and marioelegio, contributed to the conversation with various replies, but the specific details of their arguments were not provided.
Good morning everyone.
For a few months now I’ve started selling some personal items on e-bay, mostly books and used clothes.
The goal is to make a bit of room at home without throwing away things accumulated over the years, also following the death of my grandparents. Everything I put up for sale is not bought with the intent to resell and therefore does not generate any real profit.
I’d like to understand whether there is a limit on the number of items I can sell beyond which I have to declare the income in my 730 (I’m an employee without a VAT number and not a trader).
Thanks
Regards
actar80
·2 years agoPerhaps it would be appropriate to add a caption to the photos like: "personal collection spanning ten years... twenty years" or something similar to dispel any doubts.
1onzaplatapura
·1 year agoin my opinion, the tax authorities will come knocking if every month you’re taking in hundreds of euros. if you sell something on eBay maybe 2 times a year, I don’t think the tax office is going to come looking for you..if they wanted to catch the real tax dodgers, it wouldn’t take much at all. forget eBay! to me it seems like a joke. wouldn’t it be better, as soon as you go over the amount, to pay 20% directly to the tax authorities through eBay. without needing to terrorize ordinary citizens?
marioelegio
·1 year agoIf someone sells his own personal belongings that he has used, he has nothing to fear from the tax authorities and does not have to pay anything.
If someone buys new or used goods to resell them for profit and does so as a private individual to avoid paying taxes, then he is a thief who steals from the pockets of those who have to pay taxes also on his behalf.
hi
mario
eug-clau
·2 years agoGood morning,
I asked the accountant, if I sell my personal collection,
as I am doing, I don’t need either a VAT number or a tax return declaration in the 730.
These are personal items and I can go over 2000 euros and 30 transactions.
I cannot be classified as a seller; these are purchases made over the course of decades
out of passion, it is not a continuous buy and sell. To prove it, I think it’s fairly simple for
the tax authorities to check whether the items I’m selling were just bought, I wouldn’t be able to, I don’t
remember the purchase prices or when I made them (and I don’t think eBay has archived
20 years of my purchases, and if it has, even better). In any case, I photographed
the display cases containing my collection to show that I can’t buy and sell if
I already have everything at home.
Regards
marioelegio
·2 years agoEven better if you’ve posted photos of these display cases with your collection on some website. I do it periodically.
hi
mario
eug-clau
·2 years agoI had thought of this too, but then I gave up.
A matter of interpretation, publishing can also be understood as advertising one’s own collection,
and it can also be a showcase for sales, and that is one of the conditions for being a dealer.
A form of hidden advertising. But I don’t think there are any problems.
Eugenio
technopartsbay
·2 years agoRoman law says that: "Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit".
The problem is that Europe now imposes things without ifs or buts.
It’s up to the person who is accused to prove otherwise...
1onzaplatapura
·1 year agothe tax authorities could simply impose an additional 2% on ebay to be paid to the Italian tax authorities. everyone would pay the state protection money and the problem would be solved.
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoHi 1onzaplatapura
Maybe you meant 20% or more....
If a VAT number pays from 23% to 41%, I think it’s pretty hard to make a private seller who sells exclusively new items and in large quantities pay “only” 2% in taxes.
Best regards.
valetan84
OP2 years agoActually, I’m only selling things I’ve had at home for a long time and don’t need anymore. I’m not buying to resell. I don’t know how that could be proved, but that’s how it is 🙂
sika700
·2 years agoSo if you go over the limits and you get inspected and you don't know how to prove the origin... let's just say you're screwed... 😄
Have a good evening.
marioelegio
·2 years ago...... anyway, if it really is a sale of personal items, you could also go over these limits without owing anything to the tax authorities. If anything, the problem could be proving it in the event of an audit.
hi
mario
sika700
·2 years agoGood morning,
under the new DAC7 regulations, the threshold for not requiring online platforms to report your data to the Tax Agency is 30 sales per year or a revenue limit of €2000... of course, one excludes the other.
Kind regards.
sonestore
·2 years agoHello, if I'm not mistaken the limit not to exceed is 2000 euros over the course of the month, so that eBay does not send notification to the tax agency, if you were to be an occasional seller without any VAT number. But the rules are often changed, better to ask eBay more specifically for information, or a tax advisor.
marioelegio
·2 years agoThe limit is for the reporting obligation from ebay and it is 2000 euros per calendar year, starting from January 2023.
This limit has nothing to do with the question you ask about the distinction between an occasional private seller and an illegal seller, so ask your accountant.
Anyway, in your case the issue doesn’t even arise, you declare yourself a professional seller and therefore to earn income from this profession you must have a VAT number.
hi
mario
valetan84
OP2 years agoHi. Why do you say I'm declaring myself a professional seller?
marioelegio
·2 years agoReply given to Sonestore.
actar80
·2 years agoBecause, as they already told you, if you exceed the annual limits set by DAC07, your data will be reported to the Revenue Agency and you will have to pay taxes on sales, since you will no longer be considered an occasional seller.
marioelegio
·2 years agoNot necessarily, Actar.
Even if you go over the limits, you can still remain a private seller. The problem could be proving it in case of a check.
hi
mario
actar80
·2 years agoYes sure Mario, I know ... let's say someone wants to sell a collection of any kind (stamps, publishing, packets, favors, etc.), or wants to sell objects and/or furniture that they have had at home for years if not decades, it is obvious that they are not selling because they carry out a professional sales activity but to get rid of what they no longer need or want to dispose of.
The real problem, as you say, is how to prove it!
Personally I think this European DAC07 regulation was badly thought out: for example if a private individual sells repeated stickers or packets at 1 euro each it is obvious that they immediately exceed 30 transactions even if they do not total 2,000 euros in sales.
sika700
·2 years agoSorry... because the limit is annual... not monthly.
Actually, for the DAC7 regulation you should ask the European community, since it’s their idea, eBay is just trying to apply it.
Kind regards.