CONTROVERSY FERMOPOINT LOST PACKAGE

Summary: The discussion addresses the issue of a lost package at FermoPoint, which leads to several interactions between the participants, including bunker_store, k-energy_shop, cizeta1964, and heavenwelkin. No specific details are provided in the messages, but it seems the situation has generated quite a bit of activity and concern among those involved.

I’m starting this conversation to point out a BIG FLAW in the seller protection system!

I ship a package to a fermopoint address chosen by the buyer (FOREIGN), the package is delivered on December 8, on December 16 the buyer opens a dispute for item not received.

I check the tracking and indeed it shows delivered on December 8, I contact the buyer (in English) to say that it shows delivered; after several messages it becomes clear that the buyer opened the dispute before even going to the pickup point to check whether the package had arrived, and says that the next day he would go to the pickup point to check since, according to him, he had not received a delivery email.

The next day he writes to me and says that the package there does not exist, so I send all the documents to eBay, photos of the package and its contents, photo of the label, screenshot of the tracking.

They reply that they have everything needed for the assessment. I was sleeping easy knowing the package shows as delivered, the buyer explicitly stated that he opened the claim before even checking at the pickup point whether the package had been delivered, and he went to the fermopoint 9 days after delivery.

AND WHAT HAPPENS INSTEAD? THESE eBay scammers resolve the dispute in his favor. INCREDIBLE.

I can’t do anything else, the package shows as delivered!

I send an email to the fermopoint, with no reply.

so I contact packlink which explicitly says that for a signature denial a complaint from the recipient is required.

and in your opinion will the buyer ever file a complaint after receiving the refund for the order? NO

and I find myself unable to open a claim with packlink

THANK YOU eBay, YOU PROTECT SCAMMERS, NOT THOSE WHO GIVE YOU A TON OF MONEY FOR FEES EVERY DAY

sh** of s**

it’s time to launch a proprietary site, spend money on advertising, and send these shady platforms to f*** off.

THE BUYER WHO WINS THE DISPUTE AFTER THE PACKAGE SHOWS AS PERFECTLY DELIVERED TO THE ADDRESS HE CHOSE IS EMBARRASSING FOR SELLER PROTECTION

bunker_store

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Posted 9 months ago·Last reply 9 months ago

11 comments

marioelegio

·9 months ago

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The same rules also apply on a proprietary website. Under the Consumer Code (Legislative Decree 206/05), professional sellers are responsible for the goods until they are in the hands of the buyer.
This regulation places responsibility for the courier on the seller. For any problem, the seller must compensate and can then think about trying to recover the money from the courier.

Also on a proprietary website, any clause that goes against a law is automatically void.

mario

bunker_store

OP9 months ago

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absolutely agree with you...

@k-energy_shop

I also started making my first purchases 20 years ago, I’ll tell you my first purchases were all from the United States,

and I’ve always made the effort to check the order tracking every day.

then I have a certain awareness and intelligence that if I have the package delivered to a fermopoint and it shows as delivered when it isn’t there, the first thing I do is put pressure on the fermopoint and warn them that I will file a formal complaint for theft/loss for signature denial but with the business details. I’ll show you how the package suddenly turns up.

@ @heavenwelkin

let’s say that a proprietary website would be the solution, at the cost of a non-negligible initial investment, I admit, but then you can afford to make the rules yourself.

obviously in a situation like that, to protect my shop’s image I would never have wanted to leave one of my customers without their order!

I would have advised filing the complaint so it would be possible to request a refund from the courier and, in the meantime, I would have offered a refund of half the product.

but eBay doesn’t let you do something like that because buyers are spoiled (also by Amazon): I don’t have the product? I want a full refund without too much hassle.

when YOU didn’t check the tracking, YOU chose the address of a FERMOPOINT THAT HAS 3 STARS OUT OF 5 IN REVIEWS on Google with at least 5 reviews in the last year saying that the fermopoint made packages disappear, take responsibility and next time think twice about where you have the package sent.

also, I’ve just disabled shipping to fermopoints (which is enabled automatically), I didn’t even know that.

so if the buyer enters a fermopoint address and the package shows as delivered and the buyer opens a dispute, eBay’s final decision is much more likely to be in the seller’s favor from what I’ve read in the various discussions.

heavenwelkin

·9 months ago

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@bunker_store wrote:
absolutely agree with you...

@ @heavenwelkin
let's say that a proprietary site would be the solution, albeit at the cost of a non-negligible initial investment, I admit, but then you could afford to set the rules yourself.
You should accept bank transfer only though, because otherwise you'd be subject to more or less legitimate demands from the buyer, who would open a possible PayPal dispute or chargeback.
And you'd get scammed exactly as happens now on eBay.

obviously in a situation like that, to protect my shop's image I would never have expected to leave one of my customers without their order !
I would have advised filing a complaint so that it would have been possible to request a refund from the courier and, in the meantime, I would have offered a refund of half the product.

There are tons of ecommerce sites, maybe even the hardware store around the corner has a website where you can order online, but to a large extent users are loyal to buying on the platform or platforms they know inside out, where they feel safe from the risk of scams.

but eBay doesn't let you do something like that because buyers are spoiled (also by Amazon): I don't have the product? I want a full refund without too much hassle.
Besides being SPOILED, they are also INCAPABLE of doing anything beyond those 4 automatic operations, and maybe that's also why A....n doesn't shine when it comes to saving money.
Just yesterday I was looking for a product that I found for sale online in one of the many online shops (the hardware store around the corner) at 3.50 euros + shipping (I found shipping at 6 euros) and on Amazon the product cost 17 euros.
On eBay I found it for 12 euros shipped.
when YOU didn't check the tracking, YOU chose the address of a PARCEL SHOP that has 3 stars out of 5 in reviews on Google with at least 5 reviews in the last year stating that the parcel shop made parcels disappear, take responsibility and next time think twice about where you have the package delivered.
also, I just removed the authorization to ship to parcel shops (which is active automatically) I didn't even know about it.
so if the buyer enters a parcel shop address and the package shows as delivered and the buyer opens a dispute, eBay's final decision is much more likely to favor the seller from what I've read in various discussions.

Removing the parcel shop service (as I did too) exposes you to the risk of users forcing the entry of the parcel shop address without actually being authorized to do so since the eCP code is not generated.
At least 5 users have entered the parcel shop address instead of their own address.
In one case a parcel shop thought it best to keep the package.......
When the buyer didn't find their package at the parcel shop, they got angry with me, warning me that they would open a dispute.
I had photographed the package with the parcel shop address and the buyer's first and last name and I told the buyer to show the photo to the parcel shop, pointing out that I would file a complaint.
After doing this the package turned up and I saved myself a dispute with uncertain outcome (on eBay you never have any certainty about anything).

Generally, in these cases the best thing to do would be to cancel the sale and point out to the buyer that they must enter a personal or trusted address that is not that of a parcel shop because without the eCP code it would be an invalid procedure.
And the parcel shop could act outside the expected procedures.
But if you cancel the sale, the buyer might get annoyed / furious, with the risk of losing the sale for good.

heavenwelkin

·9 months ago

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In the long process that goes from paying for the item (payment system management) to receiving the item to after the item has been received THERE ARE MANY GAPS.

Many of these issues are not mentioned in any guidelines.

Distance sales, just like purchases, are a long way from being equivalent to a purchase made in person in a physical store.

On the plus side, there is usually the convenience of having items delivered to your home and getting better prices.

On the downside....... the list would be LONG.....

An experienced seller knows that distance sales are never 100% safe and for this reason the pros and cons must be carefully evaluated before making an item, maybe new, rare or expensive, available to anyone.

By now it has become so easy to open a payment dispute that probably ebay, in order not to be overwhelmed by scams, no longer even follows the guidelines it wrote itself.

It seems OBVIOUS to me that if the package is marked as delivered the dispute should be closed in favor of the seller, but if then the buyer asks to do a chargeback then ebay should be the one to put up the money.

The ebay Italia system does not work or is not working properly, that is a fact.

Therefore sellers must realize that every whim of the buyer, if not properly handled by the seller themselves, could lead to a partial or total financial loss.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

k-energy_shop

·9 months ago

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You're right.... I'm really fed up with ZERO, ZERO protection for sellers... There are a million strikes going on around the world for a million different causes, one day we should band together and deactivate eBay accounts, I know it's a utopia... Then I'd like to see what buyers buy and who pays eBay the fees...
By now the buyer feels so protected that they don't even bother checking the tracking... You have the tracking, so check it, but what the hell are you asking me where the package is?!? Or complaining that it's late, but am I the one delivering it to you??!! You place the order on 12/16 at 12... After 10 minutes the label is already created and by 1 pm the package has already been handed over to the courier... More efficient than this!! I'm a pioneer of online shopping, really I placed my first orders 15/20 years ago when there really was a 90% chance you'd receive rocks... When a package I'm receiving is late or anything like that, I've always gone through the hassle with the call centers of the various couriers, because on the other side they've done their duty, they've shipped it and on time too, and I put up the money and therefore it's in my primary interest to take care of it!!! But now, they don't even bother checking the tracking, these dysfunctional people, complaints and pain in the ass! I have 20 orders (and just as many packages) in transit, am I supposed to call about all 20 orders?!?! You as the buyer have only one damn situation to deal with, YOURS, see how they'd risk losing money and they'd start checking tracking and calling!!
There should be more laws protecting the seller, in an online sale there are 3 fundamental parties.... Seller, buyer and COURIER!!! The courier is an integral and essential part of online shopping and as such they should have their rights and take their responsibilities, not everything should fall on the seller!!

But wait.... Now here come the usual 3/4 eBay employees disguised as ''simple community users'' saying eBay is an enchanted land, their ''terms'' are simple and clear and you just have to read them... All good!!!

cizeta1964

·9 months ago

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But wait.... Now the only 3/4 eBay employees disguised as ''simple community users'' are coming out to say that eBay is an enchanted land, their ''terms'' are simple and clear and all you have to do is read them... All good!!!

The same ones to whom, in your previous posts, when you needed an answer, you addressed yourself

calling them with "good morning kind users" (17/12/'25) and " good morning kind eBay community" (23/07/2024).

heavenwelkin

·9 months ago

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@cizeta1964 wrote:

The same ones to whom, in your previous posts, when you needed an answer, you addressed yourself
calling them with "good morning kind users" (17/12/'25) and " good morning kind eBay community" (23/07/2024).

Good afternoon kind user cizeta1964 from the kind eBay community 😘

cizeta1964

·9 months ago

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Good afternoon to you too, kind user heavenwelkin of the equally kind eBay community 😘😘😘😘

k-energy_shop

·9 months ago

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I don’t know if you feel called out, dear cizeta, loyal regular of this forum... When I write, I’m addressing the gazillion users I’m subscribed to, then I know full well that as usual there are those 3 or 4.... With a guilty conscience 😉

cizeta1964

·9 months ago

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No guilty conscience, huh.... You’re not a regular here, otherwise you’d know that if the people who reply had a guilty conscience, it would be a nonstop fire... 🤣😂

Rather, the million-and-a-half people you’re hypothetically addressing probably read you but definitely don’t reply to you...

So I’d skip the pointless ceremonial greetings and settle for the usual 3 or 4... which probably don’t satisfy you, but so be it... not masked eBay employees (an old urban legend, spread by people who usually don’t reply because it’s too much work) but according to reliable sources CIA, FBI, flat-Earthers, etc. infiltrators. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

heavenwelkin

·9 months ago

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@k-energy_shop wrote:
You’re right.... I’m really fed up with ZERO, ZERO protection for sellers...
If in an eBay sale the buyer protection is offered it can’t also offer seller protection at the same time. eBay isn’t a charity.
The seller has to understand that in the event of post-sale problems (because the buyer can always open a PayPal dispute or a chargeback) they almost certainly have to take on every whim of the buyer.
There are a million strikes going on around the world for a million reasons, one day we should band together and disable eBay accounts, I know it’s a utopia...
Then I’d like to see what buyers actually buy and who pays eBay’s fees...
eBay Italy represents just 1% of eBay’s total; the economic management is by eBay International in Luxembourg, up until 2014 ebay srl still existed.
So they don’t even see us.

By now the buyer feels so protected that they don’t even bother checking the tracking... You have the tracking, so check it, but why the hell are you asking me where the package is?!? Or complaining that it’s late, but am I the one delivering it to you??!! You place the order on 12/16 at 12... After 10 minutes the label is already created and by 1 p.m. the package has already been handed over to the courier... More efficient than that!!

eBay now even notifies the buyer with an email when the package is out for delivery.
The problem is that buyers feel completely relieved of responsibility and too many users don’t even remember what they bought and where.
If, with all the astrological conjunctions lined up just right, I receive the package, fine; otherwise they ask for (demand) a refund.

I’m a pioneer of online shopping, really I placed my first orders 15/20 years ago when there was truly a 90% risk that you’d be sent rocks...

My first time on eBay was in 2000, but even before that I did distance selling without the internet; you’d call by phone and receive the goods paying on delivery.
Paradoxically, if you chose users with a certain number of feedback ratings and excellent ratings as sellers, you could calmly pay by bank transfer, yellow Postepay, or postal money order and you wouldn’t run into problems.
Today, on the other hand, feedback is worth much less than it used to be, and you no longer have the same points of reference you had before.
Then of course when a package I’m receiving is late or anything else, I’ve always gone through the hassle with the call centers of the various couriers, because on the other side they did their duty, they shipped it and on time too, and I paid the money, so it’s in my primary interest to deal with it!!!
Today it’s rare to find this type of user, mostly because today anyone buys online, so you’re dealing with the masses; years ago, when smartphones with free internet subscriptions didn’t exist yet, users were definitely more select.
Instead now, they don’t even bother checking the tracking, these dysfunctional people, complaints and bullshit! I have 20 orders (and as many packages) in transit, what am I supposed to do, call for all 20 orders?!?! You buyer have only one damn situation to manage, YOURS, see if they had the risk of losing money how they’d start checking tracking and making calls!!
Selling at a distance as a private individual has become a practice for experienced, aware, and professional users.
There should be more laws protecting the seller; in an online sale there are 3 key parties.... Seller, buyer, and COURIER!!! The courier is an integral and fundamental part of online shopping and as such should have their rights and take on their responsibilities, not everything fall on the seller!!
Besides the courier, you have to consider the shipping reseller who charges you peanuts for the courier and with whom you often run into a wall when you turn to them.
Then there’s also the pickup point.. another weak link in the chain.

But wait.... Now here come the only 3/4 eBay employees disguised as “simple community users” saying eBay is an enchanted land, their “terms” are simple and clear and all you have to do is read them... Everything’s fine!!!y

And the vision you have of this forum is really fascinating.
A greeting.