Help, I'm about to be scammed by a buyer!
Good morning, I’m asking for advice from those with more experience than me; I should say I’ve been selling for years and this has never happened to me.
I’m selling a candle with a glass jar for 140 euros, packaging it perfectly, bomb-proof, I’ve already shipped 30 candles, even to Europe, and they always arrived intact.
Yesterday the package was delivered, today the buyer tells me the candle is broken, I ask for photos and he sends them to me, but it’s clearly obvious that the candle is not the one from the listing, that is, mine, which has a brown wax part on the bottom, while his broken one is all white. I tell him I want to see the candle better, meaning the brown part and the broken glass, and he also mistakenly sends me photos of my real candle (which in fact is intact). I provided comparison photos with very clear captions, which I’m attaching here, what do you recommend I do? I don’t want to take the candle back because it’s obvious that he’s scamming me, do I have any hope that eBay will side with me? Thanks
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoThe buyer unexpectedly, and without realizing it, provided overwhelming evidence in your favor.
I advise you not to go as far as accepting the return on your own initiative, paying the shipping to the buyer, and then disputing the contents.
Try to stay calm without stooping to the buyer's level. Point out that from the photos the buyer sent you (I hope the exchange of messages took place within eBay) it can be seen that your item is intact while theirs is broken.
If you hadn't had this photographic evidence, I would have told you right away and bluntly to accept the return to limit the damage.
But since the buyer has provided proof of their bad faith, my advice is to take your chances with eBay.
So provide all the evidence in your favor and then make sure eBay reviews the case.
Keep in mind that if eBay rules in your favor, you're still not out of the woods, as the buyer could open a complaint with PayPal and then with their bank.
Honestly, I would go all the way given that the correspondence shows a clear attempted scam, documented with photos and all.
It's not certain that eBay will rule in your favor, but if you lose the dispute, file a regular police report with the photographic evidence attached, and then with the report attached, appeal eBay's decision.
2925silvia
OP3 years agoThanks a lot for the valuable help, I want to take this all the way with these miserable people, yes I confirm that all the messages were exchanged within eBay and that I never raised my voice, on the contrary I always stayed calm and dealt with him in an even too kind way.
I’ll do as you advised, for the complaint do I need to go to the Carabinieri?
Anyway, I have the whole conversation, I’m replying to him as if I were replying to eBay so they can read it, I attached these photos with captions that I made in a way to make the comparison even clearer. Beyond the candle and the money ( luckily for me I work and I don’t need those 140 euros to be able to buy bread) but it’s a matter of principle and fairness, I don’t understand how people can sleep at night ...
morgana10
·3 years agoThe complaint can be filed either with the police or with the carabinieri. You have to include the evidence ALSO within the report because that’s what is assessed first. Then, if in doubt, they also look at the messages, but what matters is what you write in the report.
2925silvia
OP3 years agoin fact, I’m using the dispute to respond; instead of accepting the return, I click send message, I wrote all my reasons there and also put the photos, I’m staying calm but I haven’t proposed solutions since right now I don’t have any... I wouldn’t want to accept the return, I’d simply like to make eBay understand that they’re scamming me...
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoOr the Police too, wherever is more convenient for you.
On eBay there is never any certainty about the outcome, for this reason if this first stage of the dispute is unsuccessful, I advise you to appeal with the report attached.
For now, then, wait for the outcome of the decision eBay will make,
If eBay rules against you, it will ask you to provide a shipping label at your own expense to send to the buyer so they can ship the item.
At that point, file a report and immediately appeal to eBay without sending any return label to the buyer.
If you win the appeal, the seller will have no choice but to open a dispute with PayPal or with their bank, but it is not certain they will do so.
Also because if you then go on to file a report with a statement and supporting evidence, the buyer should be informed right away so maybe they’ll calm down and think carefully about whether they want to keep pushing this scam.
2925silvia
OP3 years agolet's hope we manage it, but I think it's going to be tough 😞
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoIf the buyer had not sent any photos, it would have been much better for him.
But since he sent you two photos where it can be seen that one of the two is a different color and has a dark base while the other does not, you simply need to write:
From the photos sent to me by the buyer, two separate and different items are shown.
The one with the broken glass is white / light yellow, and the color is completely uniform along the entire length of the candle.
While the other item has a different color tending toward pink and has about 1 cm of darker base..
In conclusion, it seems obvious to me that the buyer is photographing two separate and different items.
I don't know what the eBay operator will decide, but in your case the buyer himself provided evidence supporting your argument, which is why in my opinion you do have a chance of success.
If the buyer had not sent any photos, it would have been his word against yours and in that case you would have lost the dispute.
2925silvia
OP3 years agothanks a lot I’ll follow it to the letter 😉
actar80
·3 years agoPS: read the private messages I sent you for another tip. Bye
vonbalden
·3 years agoThere’s something I’d like to bring up again, not to play devil’s advocate but to understand the dynamics and handle the dispute over the item better. This person buys a candle with a glass jar from you. The price isn’t flea-market junk-shop level, which means the candle is something special. Maybe a typical handcrafted item, or maybe signed, a bit like the highly sought-after Deruta ceramics. The buyer decides to return it. And he shows a broken candle similar to yours, which however doesn’t seem to be yours originally. So he already has a similar piece and we start from the assumption that he wants to replace it with an intact one. I’ll stop there. I noticed that your candle, being clearly distinctive, has a descriptive adhesive label on one side. Something that is missing in the photo shown by the buyer. Or it’s on the opposite side hidden by the hand. Ask him to show the side of the jar where your label is placed. And also to clearly show the whole descriptive part. Probably it’s not there. But even if he had transferred the label onto the piece already in his possession, it’s very hard not to notice signs of tampering. The paper curls up, it’s no longer smooth and properly positioned.... it’s not easy even if it seems elementary. You have no idea how long it took me to glue the broken fragments of a label, on request, onto the base of a 1950s toy soldier. So focus on the detail and ask, keeping calm and composed, to also show the bottom of the glass, which might bear a different mark from yours.
2925silvia
OP3 years agolet me explain,
it's a candle with a rare scent, one that's no longer easy to find and that really appeals to collectors, but it's not a limited edition ...I asked in the eBay chat for photos of the damage and he sends me these; since every candle is different in the shades the wax can take over time, mine, which has a darker wax stain, is clearly identifiable... then I asked for photos where that stain and the broken glass could be seen, but he claims the glass is broken on the opposite side... false, because from his photos I can see that the break should have been there too... so I ask again and in his rush he sends me a photo of the wax mark present on my candle, ignoring the fact that comparing that photo with his photo sent just before the break clearly shows that they are two different candles and that mine is intact and should instead have had the glass broken հենց in those spots....he also sends me the photo of the label on the bottom of the jar (I think that in any case the label on the bottom of the jar has some code or number that distinguishes it from every piece...I think...) and to take that photo he uses my intact jar because there (and this is true) the break doesn't reach....in addition, then I asked if, as he claims, on the side of the wax stain the glass is intact ...but it is broken on the opposite side (false) to take a photo with a mirror behind framing the stain and the mirror reflecting the break or at least a video and he started insulting me ....it's a truly absurd situation....
heavenwelkin
·3 years ago20 years ago on ebay everything was done with bank transfer, money order, money sent in an envelope, or payment with a Postepay top-up.
10 years ago bank transfers started to feel too restrictive and were replaced by paypal.
Today electronic payments on the visa/mastercard network are the only ones allowed and they are mandatory, but they are starting to be less and less suitable because of the high risk of scams, especially in certain categories of items like laptops, smartphones, and other widely popular, highly sought-after trendy items.
Private sellers who sell those used items that would otherwise be impossible to find are slowly disappearing from the platform for these main reasons:
1) Excessive complexity and bureaucracy to carry out simple exchanges between private individuals (money vs item).
2) Excessive OBLIGATIONS and CONSTRAINTS on the private seller who makes occasional sales.
3) Excessive risk of losing the item and the money when disputes are opened.
For this reason, a seller must adopt sales strategies that reduce the risks.
Avoid selling to zero-feedback users and/or new users because they could be users who are using disposable identities to carry out scams.
To TRY to get around this obstacle, you can list an item at a price slightly above market price but with the make an offer option, so that before accepting any offer you can check the buyer's profile.
Set a cap/maximum limit for how much you are willing to risk losing money on.
I know that the phrase "willing to lose money" sounds bad, but that's the reality of things and it's preferable for a seller to be aware of these risks rather than list expensive items thinking that they are the one in control of the sales, NO THE SELLER ALMOST NEVER HAS DECISION-MAKING POWER IN THE EVENT OF DISPUTES.
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoGood morning 2925silvia
Contact eBay support right away and point out that from the photo the buyer attached, you can see your candle is intact and also the broken one, which is not yours.
Go here: https://www.ebay.it/help/account/contacting-ebay-customer-service/contatta-ebay?id=4379
Do it right away before the buyer opens a dispute and send us updates about the outcome.
Kind regards.
2925silvia
OP3 years agoThank you so much, I immediately called support yesterday but he opened the dispute right away, I replied to his messages attaching all the photos and clearly explaining what happened, he attacks me by calling me a liar and a scammer, I was really very hurt by it...the agents I spoke to told me that eBay reads the conversations and that everything stays stored in the systems, and that eBay evaluates things impartially (but from what I read here that’s not true) I wonder whether even with obviously clear photos eBay could side with him? It seems absurd....
morgana10
·3 years agoHello,
the chances of eBay ruling in the seller’s favor are always slim and in any case, depending on how the buyer paid, they could still open other disputes (with PayPal within 180 days or a chargeback through the credit card issuer within 1 year). However, personally I would respond to the dispute (if it was opened by the buyer) by attaching the comparison photos and clearly telling them that it is a scam attempt and that if they insist you will file a complaint with the competent authorities (police, carabinieri...). To be honest, I would even risk losing the dispute because people like that need to be stopped! The alternative is no better because at most they will return it (maybe, since eBay refunds even before the return, which it does not handle or care about) and you will have to refund everything + the return shipping. Since the loss would be a net loss either way, I would try the route of justice; it doesn’t always pay off, but lose and lose... I would at least take the satisfaction of telling them plainly.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Bye
P.S: Read this too, but don’t ask eBay for help right away if you haven’t first negotiated with the buyer; you risk Bay ruling against you without even reading... https://www.ebay.it/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/asking-ebay-step-help-sellers?id=4702
2925silvia
OP3 years agoI’d also like to try the path of justice; I wonder how eBay can judge his case fair seeing the photos...he immediately opened a dispute asking for a return, meanwhile I had called eBay and the operator told me that to assert my reasons I can either accept and then dispute the receipt of a fraudulent return if he doesn’t send my candle, or let eBay decide by asking for help after 3 days. Unfortunately the buyer is attacking me, calling me a scammer and a liar, and doesn’t seem to want to find a solution...he wrote that the photos of my intact candle I sent him outside eBay by email.. absurd...eBay tells me that all messages remain in memory and he can’t delete them...I’d try to let eBay decide in 3 days even if I won’t hide from you that I wouldn’t want to give him any satisfaction....
morgana10
·3 years agoRemember though that you need to interact in the dispute, don’t let the three days go by without giving the buyer a decisive response, eBay reviews what’s written in the dispute and if you don’t respond to every request from the buyer you’re already at fault for lack of cooperation. Basically eBay asks the seller to resolve it, then if no agreement is reached you ask for intervention, but the attempts have to be made by the seller (also showing the attempted scam). Write clearly in the dispute what you think and if you can attach photos, attach them (if you can’t attach them, write that they are available to eBay).
2925silvia
OP3 years agoI haven't accepted the return yet, honestly I don't know what to suggest to work together... if I take the candle back, he sends me his broken one or even worse breaks mine... I'd like eBay to step in to stop them from being scammed 😞
actar80
·3 years agoGood morning Silvia, I’m sorry for what happened. I read the post and I have to say that your colleagues have already given you some good advice in their replies.
I’d add that if you were forced to accept the return, when the package arrives have someone help you record a video of the unboxing phase, preferably with a device that stamps the date on the video, initially making sure the sender’s (buyer’s) and recipient’s details are clearly visible.
Next time, since it was a sought-after item and one that lends itself to scams, maybe offer only in-person pickup or sell it through other channels and local delivery; for handover in person, go accompanied and choose central, crowded areas, just in case.
2925silvia
OP3 years agoyes exactly now that I know I definitely won't sell like this so lightly anymore 😞
actar80
·3 years agoGood morning, how did it go?
2925silvia
OP3 years agoP.S. It had been a while since I’d seen it on eBay, so my funds are blocked and I don’t even understand what method he used 😞
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoThe money is on hold in your eBay account and will eventually be released within 15 or 30 days because you are listed as a new seller and/or occasional seller.
Then if you reach a certain number of successful sales and maintain a minimum continuity of sales over time, the hold is removed and you’ll get the credit to your bank account within a couple of business days.
The money will eventually be credited to your bank account.
morgana10
·3 years agoUnfortunately, it's impossible to know how he paid since the buyer pays directly to eBay. If he paid with a card (which is more than likely), the chargeback goes to eBay, which then recovers it from the seller. Unfortunately, it doesn't provide evidence in the seller's favor, as it should. In any case, you're already in it now, don't do anything rash and try to stay calm, haste is a bad adviser. Think carefully before every click.
2925silvia
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