You tell me whether this makes any sense
In December (after a first sale that didn’t go through), I put an item back up for auction starting at 2,750 Euro + 100 for shipping. I was contacted by an English user who asked me to close it at 2,750 Euro including shipping. I replied that if there hadn’t been any other bidders and he had won the auction as the sole buyer, then I would have discounted the shipping. Other bidders came in, he won the auction anyway, paid 2,860 Euro, and asked me to reimburse the shipping. Even though I wasn’t required to and it would mean a loss for me, we agreed on a 60 Euro refund that I sent him via Paypal (I know, my mistake).
I was paid by bank transfer to my current account.
I rushed to ship the item with all the necessary insurance (100 euro shipping) to get it to him by Christmas as requested.
As soon as the item was shipped, the user wrote to me on Ebay chat saying he had been asked to pay about 400 Euro in customs fees, which he had no intention of paying because “it’s not my fault the UK left Europe” and that in the UK he could find the same item for less. Obviously, I did not agree to also cover the customs fees. He threatened me, saying that in that case he would accept the package and then send it back to me, so that I would have to pay the shipping, his customs fees, and the Italian customs fees for the return (written on Ebay chat).
I decide not to reply.
He accepts the package. After about 20 days he opens a dispute on Ebay for item not received. I forward the tracking showing delivery to Ebay and the dispute is closed. A couple of hours later Ebay informs me that the User has opened a dispute through the “payment provider” (which I later find out is Paypal) for item not as described because it is fake.
I provide Ebay with all the photos, the purchase receipt from the shop from 2 days earlier, and the credit card slip. I specify that it is an item that cannot be fake because it is very rare.
Silence for a week and then all of a sudden 2,860 Euro are taken from my cc, and I also receive an email from Ebay telling me that “if possible the item will be sent back to the sender.” If possible.
Ebay says it was a decision by the payment provider. I call Paypal and they tell me they can’t give me any information because the transaction took place between the buyer and Ebay, not between the buyer and me. Paypal explains that, in any case, for a refund they require an appraisal done by the item’s manufacturer certifying that it is fake, and that before refunding they wait for the item to be received by the sender.
They suggest I call Ebay, telling them that Paypal has opened a dispute against Ebay because I was advised to follow an incorrect process, since my point of contact must be Ebay and not Paypal. Ebay obviously tells me the opposite, saying it was Paypal’s decision and they have no power over it. Neither of the two parties involved, in any case, seems to have checked that the item was no longer in the buyer’s hands before returning his money, and both say they cannot request the return. In short, they are both passing the buck.
The above is obviously simplified; there were countless calls from the very beginning to report the buyer’s fraudulent behavior.
So at the moment I have no money, I don’t have the item, and I have no way to ask for it back, and I paid Ebay a fee of hundreds of Euro when Ebay in reality only protected a bad-faith buyer.
In the end, the only thing I came away with as advice from the Ebay operator on how to proceed was “The only thing you can do is report Ebay to the police.”
Throughout all this, of course, the buyer stopped replying to messages, including the ones where I personally proposed going to the UK to pick up the item so he wouldn’t even have to ship it.
This is unacceptable behavior; we’re talking about significant sums, and I find myself in a situation where everyone is washing their hands of it, while I’m out almost 3k Euro. I turned to Ebay, I paid the fee to Ebay, and it is unacceptable to be told to contact a third-party company like Paypal.
If I am not contacted by Ebay in the next few days, I will proceed with a criminal complaint to the police.
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoTrade has existed for as long as human beings have existed.
Only recently on ebay (about ten years) have payment systems created ad hoc to encourage remote e-commerce first started to APPEAR and now have COMPLETELY TAKEN OVER.
In what way do these new payment systems encourage, promote, and enable the development of online commerce? Buyers who use them are basically in a very safe position. Unless there are procedural errors, they are fully protected.
They can declare one thing on ebay, they can declare another thing on paypal, and they can declare yet another thing in the event of a chargeback.
Now these payment methods are also TAKING OVER outside the internet for the purchase of goods and services in anticipation of an imminent replacement of cash.
In my opinion, credit card payments between private individuals are fine for small amounts.
If I, as a private individual, have to put an item worth 3000 euros up for sale, I don't do it with paypal payment with shipping because the risk of being scammed is exponentially higher than with low-value items (usually you don't bother and/or get into arguments over a few euros). But there could also be transport damage if we rely on a courier.
Having taken note of this situation, the seller (aware of what is stated above) decides to take the risk of using these payment systems up to a certain price threshold (let's say, for example, 400 euros). This means that up to 400 euros I am taking on the risk of a possible total or partial loss every so many sales (no one can know the number of sales in advance, but one always hopes it will be as low as possible).
For items worth 3000, one should stay very far away from being paid via visa/mastercard and possibly organize things differently, as was done up to 10 years ago.
Since Italy is relatively "short" (in terms of distances to cover in km), you can arrange for hand pickup by car, perhaps in exchange for a fuel expense that the seller can certainly deduct from the cost of an item worth 3000 euros, considering the fact that visa/masetrcard payments are not free and are not risk-free, and therefore the seller is quite happy to receive cash or cashier's checks.
For sales abroad, one must rely on specialized import/export companies and arrange an alternative payment method between seller and buyer, because if one relies on credit cards, there is a risk of running into the problems that happened to user jck1992.
Before selling valuable items, one must always be informed about the risks/benefits that this kind of Italian and/or foreign buying and selling entails.
Prevention is always better than cure.
Kind regards.
tokitasojin
·3 years agoHello, me too, as already suggested by @heavenwelkin, I’d recommend trying a conversation with the buyer.
It’s hard to solve this kind of problem within the same country, let alone across different continents...
Try asking the buyer if they can refund you the money without customs, at least you’ll recover part of the loss!
Years ago, I sold a USED Transformers robot, the buyer opened a dispute simply saying it wasn’t new, and got a refund along with the item for free... my mistake was not sending the return label...
On Ebay, like on all other online marketplaces, you always have to be ready for losses like this.
With the Transformers I never even tried to get my money back, simply out of 10 sales there can always be 1 sale with an unexpected issue, including a sneaky or unreasonable buyer.
Again, try talking to the buyer if possible, it’s the best solution!
jck1992
OP3 years agoAre you kidding me? Please tell me you are.
I refunded the buyer 60 euros even though I didn’t have to.
I rushed to ship everything so he would have it in time for Christmas; in 3 days the item was at customs in England.
Yes, I did not agree to shoulder the UK customs fees, obviously at his expense.
Yes, I decided not to go along with a written threat via Ebay chat.
Yes, I DEMAND, I repeat, DEMAND, that at the moment I pay a commission to a platform like Ebay I be protected; I certainly DEMAND to either have the money or the item. I DEMAND that before 3 thousand euros are taken from my current account, the buyer be asked to return the item. What are we even talking about?
I really don’t care much for your advice, also because do you really think that by writing an apology message to the buyer he would send the item back to me when he has already cashed in the refund? Spoiler: he never replied to me again, not even when I suggested that I go pick up the item in the UK.
The profile is private, I have nothing to hide, since the whole transaction was handled by a friend who followed it for me, with a certified seller profile and hundreds of only positive feedback. Obviously now they’ve even closed his profile and blocked payments for no logical reason.
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoactar80
·3 years agoUnfortunately the situation is difficult for you as the seller, as they’ve already explained to you, the buyer will be proven right, the platform is biased toward the buyer, the commissions paid by sellers essentially go to protect buyers, you’ve only just made me think about it! 🤔 It’s a pretty bad deal from that point of view! 😤
The mistake you made together with your friend was selling an item worth almost 3000 euros online, moreover abroad and, as if that weren’t enough, in England, that is, outside the EU, so with higher taxes and duties that you wouldn’t have had within the EU. If you had at least limited it to Italy, you would have had lower return costs and maybe you would have understood the user in your own language better, as well as being able to deliver the item to them personally or pick it up without running into situations like the one you’re in now.
I’m sorry about how things turned out, I hope you manage to get out of it with the smallest possible expenses, keep us updated if you want. Good evening.
jck1992
OP3 years agoGood morning, no one expects me to be taken at my word (even though the buyer had threatened me via eBay chat that he would do exactly what he did).
I expect to have either the money or the item.
the refund is fine, but the charge on my bank account should only be made once the return has actually been received. That seems logical to me.
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoThe buyer acted impulsively, driven by anger, maybe because of the way you spoke to him, just as you’re doing here on the forum where you INSIST.
If the buyer had been a real scammer, he wouldn’t have made these clumsy, awkward moves; he must have been really seeing red to have had the pleasure of dealing with you.
I advise you to change your approach and find a way to talk with the buyer, maybe apologizing for not being able to mediate properly during the delicate process up to the delivery of the item. And for not having been of any help or support during that phase.
In my opinion, this is the only way you’ll get out of it with the least damage.
P.s. why was it necessary to make the feedback profile private?
Best regards.
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoGood morning jck1992
Many English sellers specify that for shipments outside Great Britain they rely only on the GSP global shipping program.
The program is active only in two nations (the United States and England); I don't think the other countries will ever get it because the risk of fraud is rather high.
It is not my intention to pile on regarding your situation, but the situation you find yourself in is one where what the buyer declares counts as much as what you declare, and there is no one who can certify that that parcel really contained the item advertised on ebay.
When shipments are this expensive, it's good practice not to try to act as an international seller on your own but to rely on a company that deals with these things.
Basically what pitney bowes does (GSP service integrated on ebay), but outside of ebay.
You send a parcel to them, they open it, verify its contents and certify them, and they take on responsibility in the event of damage (they have their own insurance); they handle customs clearance and providing any additional documentation.
Obviously this service has a cost, but for amounts this significant it's worth getting informed and doing your research before moving ahead.
The only thing I can tell you is to try to find a way to rebuild a dialogue with the buyer because in my opinion it's the only sensible path forward.
Best regards.