eBay refunds the buyer who didn't pick up the package because the contents were stolen
Summary: The discussion concerns an issue on eBay, where a buyer was refunded for an uncollected package that contained stolen goods. Users, including lebroncle, heavenwelkin, and other participants, brought up different viewpoints and questions about eBay's refund process in such situations. The responses show an exchange of experiences and opinions on how to handle these issues with the platform.
Hello everyone,
unfortunately I find myself in this unpleasant situation after 17 years eBay has decided to disappoint me.
I sold a used mobile phone, and the buyer claimed that they did not pick up the package because it was empty (missing phone). The shipment was sent through eBay's carrier with Packlink + BRT.
I call eBay support and they tell me to do "nothing" and wait for the buyer's next moves; actually I wanted to help the buyer, but okay, I follow their advice.
The buyer opens an item not received dispute (the tracking instead states that the item was not picked up and is being held) and eBay after a few days sides with the buyer refunding their money and taking the full sale amount from me (including fees).
Now I am left with a loss (for the fees + sale amount) and on top of that the phone no longer exists. So double damage.
I called eBay support again and they simply say to open the claim with PackLink (useless), washing their hands of the situation.
Any advice on this?
I am truly disappointed, other platforms would have acted differently.
lebroncle
OP1 year agoAmazon has always refunded me in edge cases like these.
Of course I'm complaining, I lost my money and my phone, I'd like to see you do it.
It's always easy to talk philosophically with other people's money.
Hugs
sika700
·1 year agoMaybe as a buyer...
Out of 3400 sales as a private seller, I don't see any reason to complain, a sale gone wrong can always happen... eBay admits 1 bad sale out of 100, so up to now you can only "lick your fingers" at how your sales have gone over the years!
I've had dozens of similar experiences without ever complaining... they're called the risks of the job...
Have a good evening.
lebroncle
OP1 year agoThe point of this whole story is that it makes sense to insure the package for the actual value of the goods, but that it costs extra.
Often the buyer doesn't accept this cost if it's optional. If instead you make it mandatory, that is, by increasing the price and/or shipping costs, you become uncompetitive.
So it's a lose-lose game for the seller either way, you always have to take the risk.
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoIf the package gets lost or stolen then yes, but in cases of damaged goods, to get a refund you have to get through a whole series of obstacles.
First of all, you need the full cooperation of the buyer, who has to provide support and keep all the packaging and labels, take various photos of the items and the packaging to prove that the packing was in line with the guidelines
And where do you find a buyer who’s willing to waste 15 days (if you’re lucky) providing support via ticket??
The buyer gets a full refund from eBay and then usually disappears.
The eBay refund process is one thing and the process with the shipping broker is another.
Best regards.
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoIt's not a "losing game" at least statistically.
Out of 3400 sales, if you had suffered 0.1% fraud, you would have had 34.
So I'd say that overall the "game" still works pretty well.
cormit97
·4 months agoParcel insured for 5k with packlink /brt and after the buyer claims the item was stolen from the eBay package, he gets refunded and the shipping insurance, which cost me €250, washes its hands of it. So nothing would change
heavenwelkin
·4 months agoL'utente l'ebroncle nel frattempo ha smesso di utilizzare ebay (almeno stando a questo suo account).
3400 oggetti venduti evidentemente senza problematiche importanti....
Se ti capita di subire qualche perdita e' una cosa che devi mettere in conto...
Abbandonare una piattaforma come ebay perche' per una volta hai perso dei soldi ....... considerando che le altre piattaforme di vendita a distanza sono piu' o meno similari come funzionamento....
Riguardo il discorso dei 5000 euro di assicurazione.
Packlink ti permette di assicurare un pacco per 5000 euro ma ha clausole di eslcusione dell'assicurazione eccessivamente limitanti e che andrebbero lette prima di accettare il loro servizio per importi cosi' importanti.
Ormai la frittata e' stata fatta ma ti inserisco comunque limiti ed esclusioni packlink sugli aritoli "proibiti" e soggetti a restrizioni:
https://support.packlink.com/hc/it/articles/208328585-Articoli-proibiti-e-soggetti-a-restrizioni
A questa lista di limitazioni devi anche aggiungere che loro fanno storie se il pacco non e' conforme alle linee guida sull'imballaggio conforme.
E poi aggiungi che le procedure per ottenere un indennizzo sono una staffetta ad ostacoli che devi rispettare alla lettera, se sbagli un passaggio o le tempistiche ti bocciano la pratica. Niente assistenza telefonica o un operatore che ti aiuta o ti guida. Solo ticket via mail che possono durare oltre 1 mese.
In linea generale anche cambiando servizio di spedizioni, per un pacco da 5000 euro a mio avviso non si dovrebbe vendere a distanza perche' le incognite sono troppe e un po' tutti i corrieri hanno "allargato le maglie alla sicurezza" a causa dell'enorme numero di spedizioni che ci sono oggi rispetto al passato ed e' un po' tutto meno controllato rispetto al passato, oggi la consegna dei pacchi avviene senza obbligo di firma, oppure il passaggio del corriere che non lascia mai l'avviso che e' passato.
E se proprio si vuole rischiare per tale cifra, si deve evitare qualsiasi rivenditore di spedizioni ma ci si deve affidare ad un corriere diretto.
Si va in qualche filiale ups, dhl e si fa tutto da li.
Certo la spedizione ti costerebbe 3 o 4 volte tanto ma per 5000 euro di oggetto.....
Non e' mai bello leggere di un utente che viene lasciato in braghe di tela per cifre cosi' importanti.
Ma non si puo' dare la colpa a packlink perche' loro le regole sugli oggetti "vietati" le hanno pubblicate.
Mi spiace per il disagio
Un cordiale saluto.
pollo_bionico
·4 months agosell stuff for 5000 euros on ebay??? a real hero 🤣
heavenwelkin
·4 months agoOn this point, there is an additional clarification to be made because in your case the package was not lost but arrived at its destination.
Did the buyer report to the courier that the package appeared to have been tampered with on the outside?
Did the buyer report to the courier that they accepted the package with reservation?
Does the buyer have a video of them weighing the package when it arrived and then filming the opening?
Did the buyer file an official report?
Because in these cases, if the buyer had accepted the package exactly as delivered by the courier, it would DIFFICULTLY have been possible to help the seller obtain compensation, even if it had been shipped through an official ups/dhl agency.
Because if the package is intact and is collected without reservation (the courier won’t accept a collection with reservation if there are no obvious damages or tampering), then it could be said that the buyer is trying to scam the seller, or that the seller and buyer agreed to scam the insurance.
In short, it is better to set an upper limit on the items you want to ship long-distance, for which you are willing to lose the item and the money in the worst-case scenario.
For amounts like these, it is better for the buyer and seller to travel a few kilometers to meet in person and close the deal.
mrbender666
·1 year agoif I may chime in, I'm in a very similar situation: the package arrived to the buyer, he accepted it from the courier without reservation even though it was insured. He opened an eBay claim reporting the package as damaged, posting photos of the damaged item. I politely wrote to the buyer that he should have refused the package or accepted it with reservation, but I haven't heard back since. I had eBay call me on October 7; a courteous lady told me they couldn't do anything before 3 days had passed, but to call back on the morning of the 11th to resolve the issue. Said and done, I called, and instead of finding me a solution the operator tried in every way to convince me to give a partial refund to the buyer, (I didn't understand on what basis, maybe that I don't know how to use couriers and don't know how to read listings?) but anyway he escalated it to his supervisor and would call me back shortly. Before lunch I go through the process again to have them call me back, the same person calls me back, same exact story.... I have them call me back again "don't worry, we'll find a solution......" After lunch I find an email where they had approved the return to the customer and had already given him the return label. At that point I have them call me back a third time and again he tried to convince me that everything was fine but that in any case there was a manager of his who was evaluating the situation and would call me as soon as possible.
TO ME IT DOESN'T SEEM RIGHT to allow the return of a product damaged in transit on a non-professional sale because the customer doesn't know how to use couriers and complains about the damaged package.
eBay support dragged things out until the automatic procedure kicked in to screw me over; I'll get back the damaged item, which obviously will no longer have the same value.
THANKS EBAY
lebroncle
OP1 year agoGood evening, I'm updating the log on what happened.
Packlink closed the first ticket with nothing resolved because, for them, the package was no longer "lost".
In fact, the package came back to me, the sender, which is very strange: the box, apart from a small piece of cardboard removed, was intact, and inside there was even the phone box completely intact, with the charger missing (but the cable was there) and the smartphone.
So basically the thief had plenty of time to open the package, open the original box, open the little bag with the phone inside, choose what else to take, etc...
Obviously I filmed before opening the package and took photos, and I'm glad I did this time because PacLink wanted me to open a ticket for a package "damaged or missing items" and so they're repeating the procedure.
For this ticket I also had to attach the report from the Carabinieri.
At this point we'll see if, and how much, PackLink's refund will be.
We'll keep you posted.
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoI'm glad you at least got the phone back....
I see that as a bit of an anomaly, opening a package and taking only the charger.....
There will certainly be some bureaucracy to go through via a support ticket with packlink, let's hope they grant you the refund of 35 euros.
Let us know how it goes.
Best regards.
lebroncle
OP1 year agoHello,
as mentioned, the Power Supply and Smartphone were missing.
The issue ends up being concluded with:
- I lost my phone and charger
- I filed a report without any action being taken
- Packlink will reimburse me €35 on October 16
- The customer received a full refund
- eBay still charges me selling and promotion fees
After several years as an eBay user, I feel completely disappointed, especially about the last point.
Other platforms would definitely have acted differently.
sika700
·1 year agoLet’s say that as long as everything goes well eBay satisfies you, but when one sale out of 3400 items sold in 18 years goes badly, they complain that eBay disappoints... seems like a lot of inconsistency...
How do you know?
A lot of platforms would have cut it short much sooner instead.
Have a good evening.
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoOk sorry, I misunderstood.
In fact, it seemed strange to me that after opening the package they had only taken the charger 😎
lebroncle
OP1 year agoUpdate for those who replied to me intelligently.
Currently eBay has taken the total €115.00, no news from them except for the charge
I contacted BRT (the carrier) and they sent my case back to the sender (which in this case is PackLink), saying they already had an open case.
I asked BRT for the package photos and they told me the package was sent back to the sender, namely Packlink, (but the tracking shows my address). I'm waiting these days to see whether it arrives to me or to PackLink.
Packlink has accepted the refund request, I'm waiting for any amount and I also asked them for photo documentation because I want to attach it to the complaint, for now no response.
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoSince you bought the BRT label from packlink, you can't deal directly with BRT because the waybill shows that packlink bought it from BRT and not you from BRT, so they (packlink) are the ones who have to handle the case.
anyway, the positive thing is that packlink has agreed to reimburse you for the basic insurance included in the shipment, namely 35 euros.
Better than nothing is still better than nothing; with other couriers, without shipping insurance you wouldn't have had any reimbursement at all, except at most the shipping cost.
Keep us posted
Best regards.
Anonymous User
·1 year agoFrom your profile I see that you have a cell phone for sale and then eBay reimburses the fees in these cases, in my opinion you're not telling the truth and you just want to find a loophole as the seller to the purchase protection...
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoFrom what we can see, the sale on September 1 concerns a Huawei P40 smartphone.
There is another phone for sale (oppo reno7)
Given that eBay does not always show all past sales but only some of them (based on criteria that are not really clear), we can say that these are 2 distinct items.
Best regards.
lebroncle
OP1 year agoMy goodness, if we've come to this, we're really in bad shape.
And I even posted the screenshot.
What a mess there is out there, my goodness...
daxsisko
·1 year agoevidently the buyer is in possession of the only working pair of X-ray glasses sold in the 70s / 80s....... so to be precise: either he rejected the package (without being able to see the contents....) or he picked it up (and then found that the package is empty......) I find the third solution unlikely.....
lebroncle
OP1 year agoHe provided proof that he rejected the package, I'll wait for the package and we'll see.
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoGiven that here we have to take into account any exceptions to the "RULES" and/or any "UPDATES" to the rules (perhaps not explicitly written), it would be useful to know whether the buyer:
Provided eBay with a receipt / proof showing that he refused the package because he found it open/tampered with?
I’m asking because, from what I can tell in your case, either there were SOME EXCEPTIONS that were evaluated/taken into consideration because the buyer PROVIDED A VALID REASON (statement that the package was tampered with or damaged) or it was a procedural error (it can happen).
Kind regards.
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoBecause the question I’m asking myself is the following:
How can a buyer assess whether a package is actually empty, in the case of a smartphone, if they have no way of opening the package?
At most, they may have found the package with signs of damage / tampering / opening, and in these cases what you do is a PICKUP WITH RESERVATION.
The courier doesn’t exactly give the buyer the OPTION to take the package, HANDLE it, etc.
Unless it was a courier who’s a “friend” of theirs and whom they know, who let them inspect the package.
But keep in mind that a courier isn’t happy when pickups are made with reservation and tries in every way to avoid it; sometimes they tell you, “yeah sure, I’ll put the reservation on the terminal,” and then they don’t, because for them it’s just a PAIN IN THE ASS....
If you can, keep us updated on how the matter turns out, thanks.
lebroncle
OP1 year agoSending the attachment for clarity on fees
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoThe advice / help you should have asked for as soon as you received the dispute for item not received.
We would have helped you by advising you to call support immediately, avoiding having the case handled automatically by the algorithm/system.
By now the decision has been made and the money has been refunded to the buyer.
Let’s say you would have had a very good chance of success.
Because if the buyer doesn’t pick up the item, they are in the wrong.
They could have done a collection with reservation, but they had to pick it up.
Because if in the non-delivery case there is tracking and the tracking shows that the buyer did not collect it, the case usually does not end in the buyer’s favor.
anyway, as soon as the package comes back to you, open a Packlink support ticket right away.
When you get the package, check that it is actually empty and that it shows signs of tampering on the outside, point it out to the courier and also record a video while you pick it up.
It will be useful as proof for the Packlink compensation.
Keep in mind that if the package was not insured, if the required conditions are still met, you will be entitled to the basic compensation, which I think is 35 euros.
In that case, let us know how it turns out.
lebroncle
OP1 year agoThanks, I’ll keep you updated
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoThat’s where things don’t add up, you can’t have lost the fees if you went through the regular eBay procedure, the fees are deducted from the total / credited back, you don’t lose more money than you received.
And anyway we need to see exactly how it went down and how the dispute was handled.
Let us know more info about the dispute.
Kind regards.
lebroncle
OP1 year agoHi, thanks for the reply,
Unfortunately, regarding the fees issue, I also asked this during my second call with eBay support, and they told me that since the fees are a customer-favorable case, they are still charged.
In fact, I received 99.15 and they deducted -115.00 from me (total sale amount).
Dispute details:
- Buyer opens a dispute saying they did not receive the item
- Seller (me) updates the tracking
- eBay sides with the customer, saying that the customer has shown they did not pick up the item.
Of course, I opened a claim after speaking (to no avail) with support.
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoHaving said that every case is different, the buyer could also be trying to pull a fast one.
Let me explain: they could send the package back with some excuse because they no longer want the item.
That way they save on return shipping costs (return)
or even avoid you, since you're a private seller, refusing the return afterward.
That's why I'm telling you that, in my opinion, things could have taken a different turn if it had been handled in time......
Usually, a buyer who doesn't collect the goods is in the wrong.
Regarding the fees, on an item costing 115 euros with shipping included, when eBay refunds the buyer it takes 99.15 from your funds and eBay covers the difference of 15.85 euros.
Then if, in addition to the total 115 euros, you were also charged the fees twice.......
ok keep us updated.
Best regards.
lebroncle
OP1 year agoUpdate.
eBay rejected the claim and PacLink opened the refund (to be confirmed) for 35 euros since the package is not insured.
As for the fees, unfortunately there was also the sponsorship fee.
Thanks
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoThe 9.26 euros for sponsorship are not refundable since they are an advertising cost.
So eBay reimburses the buyer the 6.59 euro fees.
I imagine the package has already been returned to you and confirms what the buyer stated, namely that you received it tampered with and empty....
Usually what happens is that the buyer picks up the item and then, if they realize the package is empty, opens a dispute for item not as described since they received an empty package.
And in this case then the seller has to refund.
Let’s say that, if you had insured it in full, you would have received the full refund from packlink instead of the basic one of 35 euros.
Which, considering it is included in the shipping cost, isn’t bad at all compared to many other brokers that offer no basic insurance coverage.
Sorry for what happened.