I have not received the sold item after refunding the buyer
Summary: The discussion focuses on an issue of not receiving an item sold, even though the buyer was refunded. Several participants, including ubaldo4370, marioelegio, daxsisko, and others, interacted without providing specific details in the text, suggesting private or incomplete communication. There are no explicit resolutions or further information in this thread.
Good evening, in November 2023 I sold an item in Germany, I carried out careful double packaging and shipped it with an insured courier.
The buyer receives it and writes to me right away that before opening it the package was visibly damaged on one corner (I have his emails on Ebay).
Then after opening the package he sends me photos of the shipped item where it was obvious that it had broken in one spot, and he asks for a refund for the repair.
So, having shipped with an insured courier, I open a reimbursement request with the Italian post office, the carrier I used for the shipment. The post office writes to me that after a careful investigation it turns out that the buyer accepted the package without reporting any damage and therefore they do not accept my claim, nor do they reimburse me. A few days later Ebay anyway forcibly withdraws, and without my authorization, the money for the full refund, from my bank account.
The problem is that even today, 7 days after the money was taken from my bank account, the buyer seems to have disappeared, the return is marked as closed, and I have not received the item for which I paid the full refund. Now I feel robbed, do I need to file a report with the Public Prosecutor's Office for theft? In the end I had to unfairly pay the return of 1000 euros plus 25 euros for shipping (the buyer is in Germany) and I no longer have my item, does all this seem logical to you? Should I file a complaint with the Prosecutor's Office?
pedrac88
·1 year agoGood evening, I'm in a similar situation too.
Customer complains about slight marks (item used and specifically stated), asks for a return, I accept it, arrange pickup at their home, send the courier label but evidently they never came, the customer opens a dispute and Ebay takes the money from the account.
Money, buyer, and item disappeared.
Ebay says I should have proof that the courier came by and it was unsuccessful, but who are you supposed to go looking for at the post office??
sika700
·1 year agoUhm... that answer doesn't make sense to me... what if the label didn't provide home pickup?
If I, as the seller, provide a return label, the shipping should be the buyer's responsibility.
Best regards.
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoArranging for a package to be picked up from the buyer’s home is not the best choice for various reasons.
In disputes, ebay simply asks you to provide a return label, and then it is the buyer who arranges to drop off the package at a drop-off center, which can be Poste Italiane, a BRT drop-off point, or another courier.
When the buyer opens a dispute you must provide (attach) a return label.
UNFORTUNATELY there were some procedural errors.
I’m sorry for the inconvenience.
*automobilista*
·2 years agoI’m in a similar situation. A customer complains that they received an item, sending me photos too, where it was practically identical to how I had presented it in the listing, with very clear, high-resolution photos. They open a return request, which I refuse to accept because they wanted to do it at my expense but the item matched the description. The request turns into a dispute and the buyer wins. Now I’m not even here to complain about eBay’s decision on who was right, however debatable it may be, but about two very serious problems. The first is that I had various conversations with eBay customer service, where they told me nonsense on nonsense. The first one told me “don’t worry, your photos show that this is a change-of-mind case, so the dispute will be closed in your favor.” which did not happen. The second, whom I call right after the dispute is opened, tells me “send the buyer a message asking them to give you a quote for return shipping and that you’re willing to pay it, and if they don’t जवाब in 5 days, eBay transfers the burden of the return to them.” after 5 days, however, eBay takes my funds and washes its hands of it. Left without money and without the item. Now try to justify this, even though I followed all the procedures given to me by customer service, they close the dispute completely ignoring my message where I ask the buyer to provide me with a shipping cost so I can pay it and get the item back. Tell me if it’s possible to treat a seller like this. This rule that the customer is always right has really gone too far. I’m waiting for the last item I sold to be delivered and then I’ll ask for the account to be closed after that, since 2011, I’ve never had problems like this. Never again letting a company like this, so disorganized, screw me out of money, where the customer service agents themselves don’t even know the platform’s rules and only waste your time and money.
marioelegio
·2 years agoThe mistake is always the same. The customer should not be asked to cover the shipping costs upfront or to provide an estimate.
Action must be taken, within the 3 business days that ebay gives the seller, to provide a prepaid return label.
This is not an ebay rule, but a rule in our civil code. In the event of non-conformity, there must be no cost to the buyer. So all platforms must comply.
The problem, if anything, is who should judge whether the non-conformity is real or just a pretext; in these cases there are two opposing versions of the case and no proof can be considered decisive. In these cases, 95% of the time they rule in favor of the buyer.
So I think it is better to try to minimize the damage and immediately accept the return request.
hi
mario
*automobilista*
·2 years agoThe problem is exactly that, asking the buyer to provide me with a quote was something eBay customer service told me to do, and they specifically said it would not have been worth sending a prepaid label because, according to the agent I spoke with, buyers often complain that they can’t complete the shipment with the label they were sent, so it would have been better to ask the buyer to find the right shipping option and then have me pay for it out of my own pocket; after all, if they hadn’t done it within 5 days, the return shipping costs would have actually been passed on to them. As it turned out, you can see how that went. If even they don’t know what procedures to follow, then what kind of support is there on this platform? There is no excuse for that, it’s completely insane, just like it’s insane that the fraudulent buyer who refuses to send the item back gets refunded, even though the seller accepts eBay’s decision and makes themself available to pay the return shipping costs. Total nonsense.
marioelegio
·2 years agoIt seems absurd to me that the agent you spoke to doesn’t even know eBay’s policy:
https://www.ebay.it/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/spese-di-spedizione-della-restituzione-venditori?id=4703&st=3&pos=2&query=Spese%20di%20spedizione%20della%20restituzione%20-%20venditori&intent=spese%20di%20reso&lucenceai=lucenceai&docId=HELP1380
Then what they tell the buyer is also very important:
If return shipping costs are paid by the seller
When you send an item back to the seller, you can do it in several ways. If return shipping costs are paid by the seller, they will decide how the item will be sent back to them and will tell you which method to use. Usually they will ask you to send the item back using:
The seller is required to send you the money to cover return shipping costs in advance, since that cost is not covered by the eBay Money Back Guarantee.
Tip
If return shipping costs are paid by the seller, it is important that they cover all return costs. If the seller does not provide you with a prepaid label or does not offer to reimburse your return shipping costs before you return the item, let us know by asking eBay to step in.
(from: https://www.ebay.it/help/buying/returns-items-not-received-refunds-buyers/returning-item/return-shipping?id=4066&st=3&pos=1&query=Spese%20di%20spedizione%20della%20restituzione%20-%20acquirenti&intent=spese%20di%20reso&lucenceai=lucenceai&docId=HELP1152#section3)
hi
mario
*automobilista*
·2 years agoFrom what I’m reading, it wasn’t even the support rep who made the mistake, but the person who made the final decision, namely eBay France’s department, which is even worse. I never asked the buyer to front the shipping costs, but obviously if he hadn’t decided to send me a quote, I certainly couldn’t have sent him some random amount. If I had known, I could also have sent him a prepaid label, but judging by how it ended up, I did the right thing; I probably would have lost more money, given the indifference with which I was treated. At this point, I’m also starting to doubt the impartiality of whoever made the decision.
tecnology_2000
·1 year agoFor a couple of years now, Ebay has been the worst place where a seller can sell. They protect the buyer for everything, while the seller is seen as the mule to be milked. I strongly recommend subito.it in Italy and Amazon abroad. Let's abandon and boycott eBay .
marioelegio
·1 year agoThis is not about whims, but about regulations governing distance selling.
For the seller, Amazon's marketplace is even more penalizing than eBay.
For now, it depends on where the seller is located. If the item has to be shipped, there will always be one disadvantaged party. If the buyer is forced to make the purchase without a guarantee, they will only do so if the price is very, very low.
hi
mario
daxsisko
·1 year agoassuming that comparing Amazon with Ebay makes no sense at all ( please refer to the many posts on the subject ) , but , in short:
Amazon , at least for a private seller , is a suicide..... ( higher fees and rules in many cases worse, especially in case of returns...... )
Subito : could be an alternative, but as things stand it is still limited by the fact that many users potential buyers ( .... let's just say .... since there are quite a few time-wasters ) ... tend to haggle over the price..... not to mention the rules that are too vague in some points if you use Tuttosubito....
Ebay, if you like, has the opposite problem of Subito when it comes to the rules : in my opinion they are too complex and in several points require the interpretation of the "Azzeccagarbugli "......
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoeBay got worse from 2021 if I remember correctly, when they had to remove direct PayPal payment to the seller and handle payments directly, acting as intermediaries between sellers and buyers.
In fact, a new seller or an old seller who isn't very active gets put under the microscope before being classified as a trusted seller by the platform.
Often payments are held longer than necessary.
The distance selling system is full of pitfalls and various scams, and all private sellers over the long term face a wide range of post-sale issues.
A seller who has been scammed is unlikely to stay calm and happy after taking the hit. So either they abandon the platform or, at the first good opportunity, they make someone else pay for it.
quote:
A 2024 Which? survey tracked buyers on various used platforms, showing that about 29% of eBay users suffered a scam (real or suspected) in the previous two years
An aggregated e-commerce report (2022) states that 15% of eBay buyers reported scam incidents in one year.
The numbers are pretty alarming and a lot depends on what you sell because for high-demand high-tech items the numbers can be even higher.
eBay itself is a victim of scams.
If you have a problem you can only contact phone support, which on many issues has no decision-making power at all.
eBay has evolved, it has become technologically advanced and everything works very well only if the seller meets a serious and fair buyer and vice versa, and if the other participants (see couriers and pickup points) work in a serious and fair manner.
Algorithms and automation can be disappointing when, for a wide range of reasons, the sale doesn't go through.
If you're an eBay seller, you simply have to accept that selling online has become a luxury for a few.
Too much bureaucracy, too many automatisms, too many inefficiencies, too many complications, too many scams, and total responsibility on the part of the seller for any possible post-sale issue.
If you're willing to accept all that, you're basically INVINCIBLE and distance selling is statistically a source of income.
Statistically, despite these problems, if you sell niche items it's still worth selling on eBay compared to other marketplaces.
You just have to accept that if something unexpected happens, you have to take charge of everything and you risk losing the item and the money or at least losing out on something.
Just understand that in case of problems you will certainly end up with a negative balance in your account.
Best regards.
daxsisko
·2 years agonew year...... old mistakes : Ebay has a rulebook, not reading it ( and, above all, not understanding it...... ) leads to these situations
anyway, as Mario indicated, you should have asked the buyer for the return through the Ebay procedure and then, once you received the return package, checked the contents and refunded
ubaldo4370
OP2 years agoNo, sorry, it was eBay that coercively and without my authorization withdrew the funds from my checking account, so I will definitely file a report for embezzlement against the user, but since I opened a dispute and despite the facts being clear (I have photos, emails, and conversations in which the buyer's intent to defraud is evident) eBay ruled in favor of the buyer, so I will also sue eBay for moral and financial damages. Then we'll see
marioelegio
·2 years agoGood luck, but even with hefty legal costs you’ll hardly get satisfaction.
Ebay withdraws from your account (it had your authorization to do so) only if you do not take care of getting back your non-conforming item and issuing the refund.
In the first 3 working days the dispute is in your hands and it is you who, by not acting, has passed the ball to ebay. Ebay only did what is предусмотрed in the rules.
bye
mario
ubaldo4370
OP2 years agoIf you can explain this thing about non-compliant, I’d be grateful, because the facts are these:
I pack it well, ship it with insured courier, the user receives the parcel and writes to me that when he opened the parcel the item came out broken, but that even before opening it the parcel had a damaged corner.
So I agree to refund the user and open a claim with the postal service to obtain a reimbursement.
A week later the postal service writes to me that, according to their internal investigation, at the time of delivery no damage was reported by the buyer, and so rightly they do not issue the refund.
Now things don’t add up, I open a dispute sending eBay the written communication received from the user and the response from the postal service, and despite this eBay closes the dispute in the buyer’s favor.
Now I’ve lost the money and the item, because the buyer no longer जवाबs to me.
So seller protection is equal to ZERO, so tell me what I should do? We’re talking about more than a thousand euros and eBay was definitely the means that produced this situation...
sika700
·2 years agoYou may have done the best packaging possible, but as you were already told, which evidently you did not understand, you made the huge mistake of leaving the judgment to eBay: you should have handled it yourself and probably you wouldn’t be in this situation.
You should have arranged the return shipment yourself at your own expense and if the buyer did not ship it, YOU would have been in the right... at most you would have lost the return shipping money...
Do you understand the situation now?
So you left out this small detail and let eBay decide the matter, and as is customary, the buyer gets their way.
So the fault is yours alone, because you didn’t know how to handle the situation to your advantage.
Kind regards.
daxsisko
·2 years agoI’ll restate the point, and then for me this post is closed
Ebay has a policy (and anyone who is experienced and forward-thinking enough knows it, anyway just read dozens and dozens of posts on the subject, even outside the community): once you start selling, you authorize Ebay to deposit / withdraw funds from your account (which is indicated for those who want to find information about it in the Ebay policy)
then if you choose to bring a lawsuit against Ebay ....... of course that’s your prerogative (but remembering that you accepted these rules as indicated above)
ubaldo4370
OP2 years agothese are the facts:
I packed it well, shipped it with insured courier, the user receives the package and writes to me that when they opened the package the item came out broken, but that even before opening it the package had a damaged corner.
So I agree to refund the user and I open a claim with the post office to get a reimbursement.
The post office after a week write to me that according to their internal investigation, at the time of delivery no damage was reported by the buyer, and therefore rightly they do not issue the refund.
Now things don't add up, I open a dispute by sending ebay the written communication received from the user and the post office's response, and despite this ebay closes the dispute in favor of the buyer.
Now I've lost the money and the item, because the buyer no longer replies to me.
So seller protection equals ZERO, so tell me what should I do? we're talking about over a thousand euros and ebay was certainly the means to produce this situation...
marioelegio
·2 years agoSince your customer has been refunded, the item has returned to your property and you should be able to get it back (at your expense).
Unfortunately, you made a serious procedural error and eBay won’t be able to help you (you should have arranged the return, at your expense, within the three working days that eBay gives the seller and then issued the refund only upon receiving the returned item).
Now you can only file a report for misappropriation, but I doubt it will have any effect in Germany.
hi
mario