How long should sales records be kept?
Since several buyers don't leave feedback, I keep having to save more and more photo/video files as proof of the items I prepare when I pack and ship sold items.
eBay support told me I can delete them after 30 days from the date of delivery as far as their system is concerned, but they couldn't give me any information regarding PayPal, which on the other hand, reading in the forum, they say is 180 days. I don't even use it and I receive all payments into my eBay account; in the event of a PayPal dispute, how would I be contacted and to whom would I have to provide proof of that sale? Do they really need to be kept for 180 days?
15 comments
actar80
·3 years agoYou’ve already got enough replies, I can only confirm that it’s best to keep shipping proof and any other documentation for at least 180 days, and ideally for 13 months. Just get organized and keep everything in a binder and in a folder on your computer for digital proof.
sika700
·3 years agoConsidering that in the event of an adversarial dispute the photos and videos have almost no value, I wanted to point out the differences between the various reports or disputes that a buyer can open, as already rightly described by the person before me, considering that payment is handled by ebay:
Let’s make it clear that these are procedures independent of one another, but they cannot be opened at the same time, so the seller gets notified and handles the matter directly from ebay... ebay will manage the money involved and, if necessary, will carefully evaluate whether to fund it directly or withdraw it from your account.
Each situation is different and will be assessed based on the information received; there are clear cases where ebay has funded any abnormal situations with its own money.
Kind regards.
onlyjody
OP3 years agoZero value is what people say when they don't feel like putting in the effort to do them, in my opinion, or those who have so much order volume that they can take on the business risk.
For a normal person, they're extremely important if you want to have the ability to defend yourself.
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoFor a private seller, even 3 days of buyer protection are a lot, because a not-so-honest person could still take advantage of it anyway.
Let’s say the 180 days of PayPal are, in my view, a real mini-warranty on how the item works over time, with the difference that under a warranty they won’t pass off a damaged item due to a drop, tampering with seals, or anything else, while in the case of a PayPal claim the buyer is not asked to provide any proof; it’s enough to declare that the item is non-conforming within this period to get buyer protection that can go up to 13 months in the case of a chargeback with Visa / Mastercard.
To give a practical example, I can buy a smartphone on eBay from a private seller and pay with PayPal, use the smartphone for 6 months, and then simply return it with a basic claim of non-conformity.
It should be said that eBay records all the activity on an account and if it realizes that a buyer is used to using these practices, it removes them from the platform by name.
In conclusion, even a private seller who makes occasional and sporadic sales, the moment they decide to sell an item on a marketplace where Visa / Mastercard and their derivatives (see PayPal) are used, has to take on any post-sale risks.
As a private seller, I’ve set a maximum cap on the value of the items I put up for sale, up to which I’m willing to lose both the item and the money.
You also run into this issue with electronic payments on other marketplaces, but it’s the only way to be able to sell items remotely, because asking for an advance bank transfer in 2023 is pretty hard to get.
The alternative is an in-person handoff for cash, but even there you’re subject to territorial limitations and not everyone lives in Milan, Rome, Bologna....
Kind regards.
onlyjody
OP3 years agoAs far as selling technologies is concerned, yes, it’s a huge risk and at that point, as the other user said, any proof becomes useless.
Actually, I wasn’t thinking about this kind of issue at all, but it was a much simpler post about the dispute over delivery received / different item. It seems absurd to me that after 6 months I might have to justify myself and provide proof of a shipment made so long ago.
Just for the completely wrong idea behind this kind of reasoning, how can you think that a buyer who makes a report after months could be in the right? It’s obvious that they’re the scammer in the situation; an honest buyer who receives something different from what they bought a day after delivery has already opened every possible report.
sika700
·3 years agoAnyone who responds like this is someone who hasn’t yet had to deal with “serious” disputes or has never dealt with an “unusually honest” buyer... the good kind, not the ones who wing it...
So faced with people like that, any photographic “proof” or the like becomes meaningless, when the other side provides completely opposite evidence... in these cases it’s almost impossible to tell who’s lying, and so in most cases, if not all of them, the buyers win.
So whether you want to bother or you’re not normal, it all comes down to who you run into on the other side of the issue... and it’s pretty obvious that whoever opens a dispute after eBay’s 30 days is trying to scam you, and there’s no “saint” that can save you!
Happy Sunday.
onlyjody
OP3 years agoYou answered your own question "by the good ones, not by those who improvise themselves". For as many disputes won by skilled scammers as there are, there are just as many won by honest sellers against improvised scammers. If you provide nothing to defend yourself with, you lose both against the skilled ones and against the improvised ones.
sika700
·3 years agoBut with those "improvised" ones... trust me... you won't win because you took photos or videos!
Happy Sunday.
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoI recommend always testing the items you sell and, above all, taking a photo/video test in case the buyer claims that an item doesn’t work.
They’re not all scammers; eBay does what it can to make a certain selection of users on the platform.
Once the buyer makes sure that you’re an honest person and that you sold them a working item by providing proof, things can take a different turn.
Unfortunately, without buyer protection, users would hardly buy anything from a private seller remotely.
Kind regards.
onlyjody
OP3 years agoYeah, I know that luckily they’re isolated cases, I’ve never even had problems until now.
But as you learn in school, it’s better to start studying when you have time and peace of mind rather than the very morning of the test.
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoGood morning onlyjody
Generally PayPal relies on the Visa / Mastercard payment network and indeed offers 180 days of buyer protection.
Not all buyers pay with PayPal; some can also pay directly by credit card.
eBay offers 30 days to open any disputes.
A buyer, however, has the possibility to open a dispute for item not as described even after the 30 days offered by eBay and, to be precise, up to 180 days from payment, so in the event of a possible PayPal claim (where you generally have a better chance of getting it to work in your favor than with eBay and especially the shipping costs for returns due to not as described are borne by the buyer) it's a good idea to keep any evidence in your support for up to 180 days.
Kind regards.
onlyjody
OP3 years agomy god, what a pain, I don’t know how the buyers pay so I have to consider them all equally for the 180 days.
But who would contact me if needed, and through which platform?
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoeBay receives the payment (or any possible payment) from PayPal.
So in the event of a PayPal dispute, you’ll only have to deal with eBay, so what I wrote in the post above about PayPal protections is not correct, as they only apply to direct PayPal payments --> your PayPal account.
Unfortunately it’s a somewhat borderline situation because eBay tells you that after 30 days you can throw away the evidence, but if the buyer opens a PayPal dispute eBay contacts you to let you know that you have to refund the buyer.
I’ve already made my position clear on this point, I hope eBay finds a way to avoid these situations with PayPal and Visa/Mastercard chargebacks in the future.
What I mean is that if you offer 30 days of buyer protection, it has to be 30 days and not 180 or 13 months.
Kind regards.
onlyjody
OP3 years agoBut then the numbers don’t add up for me if eBay gets involved.
PayPal contacts eBay ➡️ eBay says the 30 days have passed, so the dispute is no longer valid ➡️ how can PayPal force the refund for an invalid dispute?
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoBecause whoever handles the money always has the last word, and eBay only handles the final part of the payment, the part that goes from eBay to the seller, not the initial part, the one where the payment originates.
On its platform, eBay handles disputes up to 30 days after delivery of the purchased item.
After the 30 days, the buyer can no longer open a dispute on eBay, but can do so through PayPal or through the bank that issued their Visa/Mastercard card.
When this happens, there is little chance of winning, unless there are clear attempts at fraud.
So what happens is that eBay generally refunds the buyer and then gets the money back from the seller.
In my opinion they need to fix this step, meaning eBay should handle payments directly itself. Either by taking on any chargebacks or by making sure the payment is handled directly by them, because as things stand it is like having buyer protection of 6 or 13 months instead of 30 days.
Kind regards.