Seller protection after PayPal eBay chargeback
Hello everyone, after more than 600 buy/sell transactions on eBay I was left stunned by the way the two entities are run: eBay and PayPal. I also didn’t know they were separate, and I took it for granted that they would be objective in handling a dispute.
On March 2nd I sold a phone still under warranty until July 2024 and when the buyer asked: How long does the battery last, I replied that it was new because it had been replaced by Xiaomi Italy (I had sent the phone in for service because of a small spot on the display and they returned it with the paperwork for the battery replacement too). I gave in to his insistence for a discount compared to the listing price and shipped it, receiving compliments for the packaging and a feedback: You’re great!.
On April 14th he wrote to me saying that in his opinion the battery doesn’t last long, that he has a junker that lasts longer. I replied that almost 45 days had passed and honestly I don’t know what he may have done with the item, and I suggested he go to any service center, which is required to send it to Xiaomi because of the company’s after-sales policy. The response was: you take it. Meanwhile he had already opened a return dispute on eBay. To my reply saying that I had shipped the item complete with invoice and repair paperwork, which I had mentioned beforehand in the pre-sale, he threatened to go to PayPal with a lawyer. And I got the email from eBay saying I had to accept or dispute the return. I wrote my reasons, attaching emails and documentation; the form does not close unless the return address is entered. On May 26th the buyer wrote me an email asking for the return reference. Having received no official notice from eBay or PayPal, I considered it a personal initiative by the buyer and did not reply. On June 7th I was informed that the dispute had been resolved in the buyer’s favor and it turns out the return was sent back to the sender for “NON-DELIVERY DUE TO INCOMPLETE DETAILS”. I contacted eBay and PayPal support. PayPal didn’t even consider me as the seller because the transaction is between them and eBay, which is therefore my point of reference. eBay, which in the meantime had frozen my money, takes the frozen amount plus the difference from the reference account. With the dispute closed I was given no other choice but to write to the buyer to arrange, at my expense, for the item to be returned... something I can’t do. And yet he’s a seller with 113 positive feedback... Has this happened to anyone else? I think all that’s left for me is to report it to the competent authorities
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoYou made mistakes during the dispute process.
Next time come to the forum BEFORE making decisions on your own and not AFTER you've already lost a dispute.
Because otherwise even eBay support can't help you.
You were lucky that the buyer did not want to contest the complaint and proceed legally, since he returned the item to you following the required procedures.
Misappropriation? That remains to be seen...... maybe with a DIRECT relationship between seller and buyer without advertising and financial intermediaries.
I'd like to see some court cases where a buyer was convicted of having to pay damages for misappropriation after following all the procedures required by eBay and PayPal.
Why would someone go to eBay's marketplace paying with PayPal when a seller who loses a dispute because he violates the rules decides to take me to court?
The purchase was made on eBay and PayPal and the procedures provide for the return of the item, so it is perfectly in line with the laws in force; if they say that's fine, then in my opinion it's fine.
Kind regards.
dinan_bay
OP2 years agoThank you... I needed a lesson after 20 years on eBay and PayPal and more than 600 transactions with 100% positive feedback just on eBay, not counting other platforms. What can I say, it's never too late to learn and I humbly take it to heart. Thank you for sharing your time
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoIf a seller has a problem up to 30 days after delivery, they have to refer to what eBay decides
In turn, after the 30 days, eBay has to refer to what PayPal decides
In turn, after 180 days, PayPal has to refer to what the banking institution that processed the payment decides.
So the seller “couldn’t” report the buyer directly, since there are several intermediaries between them who handle the transaction.
Besides, the procedures of these intermediaries provide for the return of the item.
Let’s say that if you come across a competent buyer and they base their defense on the fact that the transaction took place on eBay and PayPal and that the return procedure was carried out according to PayPal and eBay regulations, you could lose the case and have to compensate the buyer.
Then of course anything can happen......
In any case, I’m glad you were able to get your money back.
The buyer still has their item as described.
Best regards.
dinan_bay
OP2 years agoIn the end it became clear that a situation had been created among people acting in good faith, made complicated by the "paradoxical" rules of the mediating institutions. Luckily, the buyer's common sense prevailed.
daxsisko
·2 years agolike it or not, if you sell on eBay (or on other platforms too...... each with its own pros and cons.....) taking things for granted isn’t enough.....
especially if you haven’t kept up to date for a while (for example: PayPal and eBay split years ago...... with all the consequences that come with that....)
dinan_bay
OP2 years agothe past I have always been protected by PayPal (for 20 years). The new
180 days, I see it as an extra weapon for those who act in bad faith in
private transactions. Especially refunding without waiting for the return
to go through successfully. Believe me, I spoke on the phone, I wrote to the lead
quarter: all responses as if I were a leper.
It definitely won't be the same as before. For more than 20 years, all feedback
positive on all exchange platforms.
daxsisko
·2 years agounfortunately, for sellers, it is like this: over the years both eBay and PayPal (and in any case the others marketplace follow right behind, each with its own rules......) have changed (eBay in particular.....) the rules several times, among other things introducing rules that increasingly protect the buyer ......
PS: the 180-day rule is anything but new ....... if I remember correctly it’s been in force for at least 8-9 years......
dinan_bay
OP2 years agoI didn’t know about the 180 days because fortunately I’ve never had to as a buyer/seller.
It’s just that I expect objective impartiality in the judgment. The documentation and timeline provided should be taken as authoritative.
Anyway, it’s never too late to learn a thing or two about behavior, even from people acting in bad faith.
actar80
·2 years agoI can confirm that the 180 days on Paypal have been in place for 7-8 years; I spoke about it at the time with a Paypal operator. In fact, they make sense for purchases made from non-EU countries, even if they should have at least differentiated for those made within the country, where the old 45 days were sufficient.
The thing that made Paypal support different was that there was more interaction with operators (among them often Italians, at least until a while ago) who were specialized in handling complaints and refunds; Ebay support, on the other hand, deals with everything, is understaffed, undertrained, and now completely outsourced abroad.
dinan_bay
OP2 years agoabove all, I was disappointed by how the situation was handled by both
parties. It’s unthinkable, regardless of the time period, not to take into account the
successful completion of the whole operation and issue a refund. I find myself alone having to
recover the item, with the buyer making a thousand excuses and
in the last msg, showing himself annoyed, he told me to f*** off... I have
all the documentation ready and on Monday I’m going to file a complaint with the postal police
and the carabinieri. I will report the buyer, eBay and Paypal.
actar80
·2 years agoUnfortunately, since there was a dispute via eBay, Paypal did not intervene; this has been the case since the double eBay/Paypal track was introduced (which only remains for the buyer).
If you want, you can report the buyer for embezzlement, with the relative time and lawyer costs, but if you think of suing eBay or, even worse, Paypal (since in this case eBay should have handled the dispute), you will only waste a lot of time and money, because by signing up to the platform you have implicitly accepted all their contractual terms and all the changes that have occurred over the years.
Since you did not make a choice, eBay automatically refunded the buyer and therefore the dispute for eBay is closed even if the item has remained in the hands of a dishonest buyer. Right or wrong, these are the rules the platform has set for itself. Unfortunately, that's how it is.
marioelegio
·2 years agoYou can report him for misappropriation, if he refuses to return your item to you (with the refund, it became your property again) after you stated that you would cover the return shipping costs.
However, the fact remains that when he asked for an address to return the item to, you did not respond.
hi
mario
dinan_bay
OP2 years agomy reference was known. But beyond that, I would have expected an email of
warning from whoever was handling the situation. In this case I don’t know what she
wrote as the recipient. I also asked them to send me a photo of the return
label. Nothing at all. Oh well, it was meant to go that way. One thing I don’t
understand: eBay wrote to me that I was wrong to refuse the return
because the request was past the maximum time, which for them is 30 days. Hmm.
Meanwhile PayPal gives 120 days. An eternity, especially for a delicate item
like a cellphone. Complete disappointment. The smart alecks are favored.
marioelegio
·2 years agoPaypal has a 180-day limit. If the payment was made by credit card, we're talking about more than a year to do a chargeback.
Since nowadays all remote transactions (on any platform) happen with electronic money, it's practically impossible to have any recourse if you run into someone with bad intentions.
hi
mario