Yet another returns scam with eBay's complicity
Summary: The discussion concerns an alleged scam scheme related to returns on eBay, with possible implicit complicity on the part of the platform. Several participants, including pcprice76, marioelegio, and heavenwelkin, exchange opinions and experiences on the topic, expressing concerns and sharing possible solutions or preventive measures. The dialogue suggests a certain level of frustration among users due to eBay's lack of effective action.
Here we go again. This summer was the HEIGHT of fraud, taking advantage of summer closures and automatic refunds during the sellers' absence.
In one of these cases it seemed like we'd dodged a bullet, ebay had closed the dispute in our favor and we were no longer worried. Today an insane email arrives
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Now I'll have to lose yet another day at the carabinieri to file a report and I'd also like to sue Ebay for complicity, if that were even possible...
We're in total madness |
heavenwelkin
·10 months agoI’d like to point out that there used to be
A registered Italian company existed (eBay Italia S.r.l.), based in Milan.
It had its own Italian VAT number, and served as the point of reference for:
- local accounting (issuing Italian invoices, including to professional sellers)
- legal representation
- Italian marketing and PR
RegistroAziende.it” reports that Ebay Italia S.r.l. is “terminated
The latest financial statement dates back to 2021 with a loss of 6553 euros.
Today eBay.it is no longer managed by an Italian legal entity.
All the tax, legal, contractual, and operational side is handled by eBay Europe S.à r.l., Luxembourg.
After 2021, with the direct elimination of PayPal payments, things changed drastically.
The quality of eBay service has dropped drastically and I have drastically reduced the value and quality of the items put up for sale.
Best regards.
pcprice76
OP10 months agoI think I'll do the same too. Just think, there were even customers who bought me replacement keyboards, the keys had LITERALLY COME OFF to fix their own and then ask for a refund! It's madness, they now feel entitled to do any nasty thing they want knowing that Ebay protects them.
heavenwelkin
·10 months agoregardless of who is right or wrong in this discussion, the fact is that sellers have to take care of practically EVERYTHING (including the issue of vacations / absences) when a sale doesn't go through for the most varied reasons.
By now the mass of users scams you even over cheap Chinese junk.
They claim the quality is low (item paid 2.99 euros with free shipping)
Or they tell you the color doesn't match and ask for a discount on items maybe paid 4 or 5 euros.
In the face of this economic, social and cultural decline, how am I as a seller supposed to sell items worth hundreds of euros when there are so many post-sale issues, where it's enough to claim to have received apples instead of pears to get a refund and keep the item?
I have noticed that there are plenty of sellers who fill ebay with cheap Chinese junk, who don't give a damn about post-sale service, who don't respond to messages or disputes because they're just items with no real value that aren't worth taking back, and who open and close accounts when necessary.
Best regards
technopartsbay
·10 months agoSee, son... the undersigned works in amusement rides and my company operates 90% with abroad.
Many years ago customers were stunned when they were told that in August the company was completely closed: they couldn't understand why in Italy there was this custom of shutting everything down for a month every year.
The same China, which does the same during Chinese New Year, has minimum operating shifts in that period precisely for customer support and basic production.
And since in amusement it is precisely in August that customers work the most, denying them support isn't exactly the best.
For at least 30 years we have never closed in August: in the office there are always technicians and in production always someone for spare parts. Vacations are scheduled and staggered throughout the year.
That said, I'll pass, I'll close and I'll even turn off the radio.
Have a good evening.
pcprice76
OP10 months agoGood for you. I sell laptop spare parts and not life-saving medicines, so I think one can wait 15 days for a refund. On top of that, by law, we are well within the expected timeframes. The example of China is a bit surreal anyway, given how people live in those countries and what their extreme productivity is based on.
That said, I doubt that in Germany small businesses always work without taking vacations, since I know someone who is from Berlin and that just doesn’t seem true to me at all
pcprice76
OP10 months agoSo I’ll जवाब a bit to everyone. In eBay’s rules, extensions are provided in case of disasters, wars, locusts, and whatever else you can think of. It would be SACROSANCT but above all RESPECTFUL to allow, during the holidays, a little extra time just so you can handle returns without ruining the little vacation time you have. Also because, let’s be honest, with the bitter taste you get thanks to these marketplaces and their customers, honestly I just want to switch off and not be anxious for at least those 15 days!. On top of that, you have to add an important consideration. Even when handling the return by providing a label, etc., the big problem is checking what comes back to you. because, forgive me, according to the genius I spoke to on the phone, I was supposed to take a plane, travel a thousand kilometers, open the returns, check them, and then go back to the beach. In short, science fiction. On top of that, there’s another thing, namely even if I were crazy enough to do something like that, nothing would change anyway! In fact, the reason for my rage, specifically, is ONE of the 4 summer scam returns that I managed to check in time because the claim was still open. I reported that the customer had swapped the replacement part with an old one, a different one and also a broken one; EBAY exceptionally closed the claim in my favor, only to reopen it days after it had refunded me, taking my money and giving it to the scammer! In short, even if we had a way to verify returns, Ebay would refund them anyway! On the phone they tell you “we can’t verify it, so we refund the customer”. Too bad that in their rules it clearly says that if the customer swaps the return with another product, they lose the right to a refund. At this point they need to explain to me in what THE HELL kind of situation that rule could ever apply, given that even when you give them the evidence they still side with the customer. In short, after 20 years I’ve felt like closing my eBay shop, because fine, whatever, but with all the money I leave them I think I at least deserve a bit of respect
technopartsbay
·10 months agoWe also need to consider that the platform assumes the rule, not the exception.
That is: in Italy in August, more or less all companies completely shut down for 15-20 days, sometimes even more.
In Germany, no. There's no everyone-on-vacation-in-August situation.
That’s why the days to respond to a dispute are "business days" and do not take into account sales breaks, which are possible, yes, but still require a minimum of monitoring by the advertiser (or by one of their employees/delegates).
pcprice76
OP10 months agoHow has it always been done, since the world began? If you buy from a physical store and have a problem in August when they're closed, what do you do, smash their shutter and take your money back? Or do you wait for them to reopen with PATIENCE and RESPECT for other people's rest?
The fact that we are sellers does not mean we are not human beings, with every right to well-deserved rest
heavenwelkin
·10 months agoSo basically, when the seller is on vacation, the buyer opens a dispute and you, not being able to reply or provide a return label, lose the item and the money?
eBay has the rule of a maximum of 30 consecutive days to set vacation mode.
In theory, since it’s an eBay rule/function, any disputes should also be paused when a seller can’t respond to the dispute because they’re on vacation.
If this isn’t happening, it COULD be because eBay Italy imports functions and changes from eBay Germany, and often these updates don’t work properly.
In fact, the eBay Italy platform is full of bugs and errors.
It would be worth checking whether on eBay Germany this function (the seller being on vacation during a dispute) is active and correctly set up and working during a dispute, if it waits for the seller to return from vacation.
In that case, you should contact eBay Germany for assistance.
Sorry for the inconvenience
marioelegio
·10 months agoUnfortunately, the time eBay gives sellers to respond to disputes is business days, but they don’t take vacation closures into account.
hi
mario
heavenwelkin
·10 months agoNice one, so if a seller wants to take their summer vacation in peace, they could end up with a certain number of buyers opening a dispute for item not received or not as described and getting a refund because the seller didn’t respond or provide a label within the maximum required timeframe.
A nightmare, basically
This is one of the many reasons why automatic disputes are not good.
If there had been an operator checking before issuing the refund, maybe with a certain decision-making power, they would have suspended the dispute until the seller came back.
marioelegio
·10 months agoBut consider the issue also from the buyer’s point of view.
If they have a problem, do they have to wait for the seller to come back from vacation, maybe for the whole of August?
After all, even the European directive (consumer code), when calculating the time needed to handle returns, does not take the seller’s vacation into account.
I’ve always taken my vacations by delegating routine management to someone else, but I’ve always brought my laptop along ...
hi
mario
heavenwelkin
·10 months agoThe buyer’s point of view is absolutely valid, but here we’re talking about buyers who, after getting a refund, also keep the item and then disappear.
A lot of professional activity on eBay is handled by some poor “bastard” who opened a VAT number just to scrape by.
If eBay lets me set vacation mode for up to 30 days, that means I can close the shop and go on vacation without a care in the world.
Also because you can open a dispute up to 30 days after the maximum delivery estimate.
So it could very well be a purchase made at the end of June, with the seller going on vacation in August.
If, when I come back, I find a bunch of buyers exploiting this loophole to keep the item and get a refund.... getting pissed off seems perfectly reasonable....
But then again, even if I wanted to stay operational in August, if I’m on vacation abroad or very far from where I have my operating base at the address registered on eBay, if I provide a return label...... I’d have to change the return address (but I don’t think that’s possible on a sale that’s already been completed) so I can’t even reroute the package to my mother-in-law.....
As always, the seller is the one who has to take on all the post-sale issues, including this one about the shop being on vacation.
So let’s add this issue to the (long) list