DAC07 regulations: new obligations for those who sell online. Must-know for private sellers.
Summary: The discussion revolves around the new DAC07 regulations, which introduce new obligations for online sellers, particularly targeting private sellers. The thread consists of multiple participants exchanging thoughts, responses, and inquiries about these regulatory changes. The conversation spans various dates with contributors like actar80, vonbalden, and marioelegio, among others, engaging in the discussion. The focus is on understanding the implications of these rules on private online selling.
Even though this has already been discussed, I think it’s useful to repost an informational post for the benefit of private sellers regarding DAC07 regulations, hoping that many users will read it and, once aware, later avoid blaming the platform.
This is a new European regulation aimed at combating tax evasion linked to online commerce. In fact DAC7 has been in effect since July 1, 2021, but it was expanded and modified with the new directive published in March 2023.
In short: to remain a private seller you must meet certain parameters, namely a maximum of 29 transactions and a maximum of 2,000 euros, so fewer than 30 transactions and where the amounts paid do not exceed 2,000 euros. If these limits are exceeded, platforms are required to report the data of all sellers, سواء they are natural persons or legal entities.
---- For all details I refer you to these articles:
https://www.ilcommercialistaonline.it/dac7-vendite-online/
https://www.italiaoggi.it/news/i-redditi-guadagnati-online-nella-morsa-del-fisco-2595560
lucvicin-3
·5 months agoYes, I agree with that, but the problem is that if the tax authorities were to decide to carry out an audit, especially regarding Kinder surprises, since I have many of them for sale, some even in duplicates and triplicates, I wouldn't know how to prove that they come from Kinder eggs eaten by the family over the last few months. For example, I certainly haven't kept the supermarket receipts.
The fact is that I don't even have an accountant, since I don't have any business activity
As for new items, I hardly have anything new in the true sense of the word (just 2 or 3 things), but I had listed all the Kinder surprises as new, even though they were actually opened; at most I'll edit the listings and mark them as used then.
lucvicin-3
·5 months agoA question: I recently moved, and I ended up with a lot of stuff I don't need anymore and thought I'd sell some of it on eBay instead of throwing it away (including some Parmigiano Reggiano cheese graters still in their boxes and new, 20 identical ones, that had been in the house for years, since my father had a dairy that closed and I didn't know what to do with them); I also had collected a certain number of Kinder Surprise toys, especially the Stranger Things ones that came out in the last few months, I wasn't interested in them but, since instead of throwing them away I'd set them aside and now I got the idea to sell them, there are about 30 in total, 3 or 4 are from Kinder eaten recently (in the last 2 weeks), the others I'd had for a while, some of them also identical to each other (so yes, there are multiple quantities too), plus some other older ones from other series (6 or 7 in total), even from 1 year ago and all different, which I listed a bit every day from a couple of weeks ago until today. Since January 26 to today, 5 of them have been bought (I didn't expect so many purchases in such a short time). Now I've read this story about eBay's parameters for assessing private sellers' activities, and I wouldn't want my account to be considered "anomalous" as indicated in the message I quoted above.
Just to give an overview of my situation: in my case the account isn't new, I've had it for many years, but I had no seller feedback, I'd only bought: I had listed years ago (maybe in 2020) a scale model of a truck from a newsstand collection, but it's still listed because nobody ever bought it from me (despite being priced lower than what I paid for it), and nothing else until I think October, when I bought a new smartphone, and there was a promotion where they gave me a new one for free (obviously worth much less than the one I bought), which, not knowing what to do with it, I listed here on eBay together with some Coop stickers that my mother would have thrown away, and I sold both in November. At that point then when I moved (just a few days after selling the aforementioned smartphone) I got the idea to sell other stuff, which turned up during the move and I don't need, here on eBay like I did with the stickers and the smartphone.
By the way, I didn't even know about DAC7 and all these things, I'm only finding out now, and since mine is obviously not a professional activity, I wouldn't want it to be perceived as such.
Do you have any advice or suggestions?
marioelegio
·5 months agoThere is no rule that prevents you from selling privately what you describe.
The DAC 7 only requires eBay to report accounts that exceed certain transaction volumes to the tax agency. It will be up to the latter to decide whether or not to carry out an audit.
hi
mario
lucvicin-3
·5 months agoYes, I agree with that, but the problem is that if the tax agency were to decide to do an audit, especially regarding the Kinder surprises, since I have many of them for sale, some of which are even doubles and triples, I wouldn't know how to prove that they come from Kinder items eaten by the family in recent months. For example, I certainly didn't keep the supermarket receipts.
The thing is, I don't even have an accountant, since I don't have any business activity
As for new items, I hardly have anything new in the true sense of the word (just 2 or 3 things), but I had listed all the Kinder surprises as new, even though they were actually opened, so I might as well edit the listings and mark them as used instead.
heavenwelkin
·5 months agoGood morning
As for DAC7, the thresholds are 30 items and/or €2000 in sales.
If you exceed these thresholds, eBay sends a report to the tax authority.
In this case, you'll need to discuss what to do with your accountant.
As for eBay, there is no specific information indicating the maximum tolerance threshold that a private account should stay within to remain in range.
There are private accounts with thousands of items for sale, and there are private accounts that, after selling a certain number of new items, are asked by eBay to provide invoices and then switch to a professional account.
The advice I can give you is to avoid listing new items and selling the same new items in quantity.
If you list your listings as used items, using real photos and not stock images, you shouldn't run into particular problems with eBay.
Kind regards
luckyaubrey62
·1 year agoI received communication from eBay: they are transmitting my data to the German authorities, who will then transmit it to the Italian one. In 24 I went over the €2000 in sales limit (by a little) because I sold a series of duplicate models from my collection in a rather short time, and others sporadically during the year.
They haven’t asked me to fill out anything
italoclassic
·1 year agounderstood, but the rules say that if you don’t fill something out they close your account, what is there to fill out if not the confirmation of personal data?
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoIf you sell on eBay, besides registering the account and entering your IBAN, there's nothing else you need to do regarding DAC7.
Best regards.
italoclassic
·1 year agoI was referring to the case where someone exceeds these DAC7 sales limits and receives a reminder email, but I didn't understand what it's for, which is why I was talking about a form that needs to be filled out
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoI don't think eBay sends a "reminder" email when the dac7 sales limits are reached / exceeded.
From what is known, the whole thing should be completely transparent.
In the sense that a seller shouldn't be warned by eBay if they exceed these limits, but has to manage themselves / self-regulate, carefully weighing the pros and cons if they go over the dac7 limits.
Where did you read that once the dac7 limits are exceeded eBay sends a notice and then forms have to be filled out?
italoclassic
·1 year agohttps://www.studiofiscalelegale.it/it/vendite-on-line-con-la-direttiva-dac7-i-dati-di-chi-vende-on-line-finiscono-allagenzia-delle-entrate/
Here, for example, it says so, but obviously it doesn’t speak about eBay specifically, just in general
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoIn the link it says:
I quote:
Platform operators, in order to transmit the data to the tax authorities, will ask you to fill out a specific form once the user has reached one of these two conditions:
they have completed 30 or more sales in a calendar year or
they have earned more than €2,000 from your sales in a calendar year;
Sellers who do not meet these requirements are excluded from the reporting.
I don't know whether eBay, as the platform operator, will notify the user once the thresholds above are reached and invite them to fill out a form.
There are still no direct experiences here on the eBay forum, and it seems to me that not even elsewhere is the information clear and detailed regarding the procedures to be adopted.
It could be as written, or it could be that eBay does it automatically.
For now, the doubt remains.
italoclassic
·1 year agothere's still a lot of confusion, elsewhere I read that if you don't fill out this phantom form there could be penalties from 3000 to thirty thousand euros. No idea, thanks for the answers.
marioelegio
·1 year agoeBay made you fill out that form before letting you start selling.
If you exceed the DAC7 limits, they send it to the tax agency.
If you don’t exceed them, it stays in their records.
hi
mario
technopartsbay
·1 year agoWith eBay there’s no "form" to fill out: they ask for your tax information when you start selling (and they’ve been doing that since 2021 onward), just as they ask for a "physical" current account (that is, a real one in your name) into which to deposit the proceeds.
italoclassic
·1 year agoHello. I was wondering about this: for those who decide not to fill out the form and close everything, do they send these data anyway? Or does eBay need this personal information in order to send these darn data?
mocer-75
·1 year agoIt's a bit like saying... I open a pizzeria, but I don't know how it'll go... so before getting everything in order I try it for a while and the financial police (or the tax agency) can't hammer me like this! Then we wonder why Italy is in such a state... politicians are only a reflection of the low level of the citizens who elect them.
aumaldo
·1 year agoBasically, if in almost 70 years of collecting I’ve spent 100 (random number) and now I try to resell for 50 (thus, at a loss), I’d have to pay IRPEF and INPS contributions and open a VAT number!!!
marioelegio
·1 year agoNo, definitely not, and it’s no coincidence that IRPEF would be paid only on the capital gain.
aumaldo
·1 year agoOk, but the problem would be that if I sell at 50, I can't prove that I bought at 100! I wouldn't be able to prove it, because I don't have receipts for what I bought 65/50/35 etc. years ago. So, absurdly, not only would I have to pay Irpef, but I would have to pay it on the full sale amount...
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoIt's been at least 15 years that people have been debating the issue of private sellers who often have sales volumes higher than those of a professional seller.
DAC7 doesn't play favorites with anyone (maybe because there was no way to do otherwise) and it sets limits on sales (30 sales or 2000 euros per year).
Keep in mind that for at least a decade a private seller who sells on eBay or other platforms through PayPal/Visa/Mastercard has had to take on RISKS on sales comparable to those of a professional seller, except for the fact that they are required to provide a warranty and accept returns.
Keep in mind that a private individual who wants to sell a fridge, a washing machine, a bicycle and whatever else can do so on the internet without being in the slightest affected by DAC7 through online listings with in-person exchange.
If you are really a private individual who wants to get rid of a computer or a TV, you can do it easily since the cash payment limit in 2024 should be 5000 euros.
Obviously, selling on eBay allows you to expand your sales possibilities and sell at better prices because the platform offers a certain level of security to protect purchases, but if you are REALLY a private individual who wants to get rid of an item, maybe you put it for 50 or 100 euros less outside eBay and sell it just the same.
The private individual who starts checking market price trends, who does not sell below certain prices, in my opinion is more than just a private individual but someone who maybe as a hobby or as a second job likes to do business.
Even selling items from your own collection at market prices, buying them in stock at great prices and then reselling them to make money to expand your own collection is to be considered a way of acting like a trader.
In my opinion, DAC7 targets this type of user.
Kind regards.
aumaldo
·1 year agoI would like to clarify a few things.
First point. The Revenue Agency, with reference to the information it receives linked to DAC7, does not say that anyone who exceeds that sales threshold is a professional seller, but rather (as I seem to have understood it) simply wants to draw attention to those who do exceed it, in order to then draw its own conclusions according to its own parameters, which (as far as I’m concerned) I currently have no way of knowing.
Second point. I do not intend to sell a bicycle or a washing machine that I no longer use, but I am a collector (to be precise since 1956) who has come to the decision to sell his extensive collections, in the hope of getting no more than half back (probably even less) of what I have spent in almost 70 years.
Third point. I am not sitting there checking market prices, but I try to sell at prices that (based on my knowledge) I consider appropriate for my situation as a private seller (professionals are able, for many reasons, to sell at significantly higher prices). Contrary to what you seem to assume, I am not “someone who maybe as a hobby or side job likes to do business.”
Fourth point. You are right when you say that “buying in stock at excellent prices and then reselling them to make money to expand one’s own collection is to be considered a trader’s way of doing business.” But, precisely, I do not do what you have assumed, I do not buy to resell (what I sell is material I have owned for decades), so I am not a trader, my sales do not generate capital gain and, therefore, tautologically, they cannot be subject to IRPEF (income tax without income?), regardless of what someone (and I am not referring to you…) may believe to the contrary.
Fifth point. A few posts above I posted the details of a clarifying ruling by the Lazio Regional Tax Commission. If anyone knows of a later one, it would be appreciated if they could provide the references. In any case I do not think there can ever be a ruling that imposes payment of IRPEF on transactions that did not produce income.
Sixth point. It is also true that, as a friend of mine (a retired Revenue Agency official) confirmed to me, the Revenue Agency often tries, attempting to collect money where it would not be entitled to it.
Best regards
aumaldo
·1 year agoFor the avoidance of doubt, I’m posting the comment on a ruling by the Regional Tax Commission of Lazio
Sale of collectible items between private individuals: does it have to be declared?
Sale of used second-hand items: do you pay taxes? Do the proceeds have to be reported in the tax return?
Imagine you have a collection of ancient coins, partly inherited from your grandfather and then continued by you over several years. Some pieces have considerable value; others are just for completeness, but they still arouse a fair amount of interest among experts in the field. Unfortunately, because of new financial difficulties and a need for cash, you have decided to sell the items in your possession. So you contacted some potential buyers online, offering them advantageous prices. In this way you dispersed your collection, negotiating separately with several people and making a fair profit from it. Where you were unable to sell, you made barter exchanges and then passed on the same pieces received to other people. In the end, you became an “expert” in the sale of used items. Your aim, however, has always remained the same: to get rid of the old pieces to recover some cash. Now that you have achieved your goal, you wonder what the Tax Agency can do when it sees all these credits of money in your current account. In particular, you wonder whether the proceeds from the sale of used goods are taxed. In other words, is the sale of collectible items between private individuals taxable? The issue was recently explained in an interesting ruling by the Regional Tax Commission of Lazio [1], which is also worth keeping carefully in a drawer in case one day you find yourself in the position of selling used items, antique pieces and/or collectibles.
Tax assessment for the collector who sells
Can a tax assessment be made against a collector who sells used items such as jewelry, antique pieces, old books, weapons or stamps? The rule is that sales are taxed only if they create “capital gains,” that is, if they are sold at a price higher than the market value or the price at which they were purchased.
In any case, according to case law, tax assessment against a collector cannot be made because the possible sale of the items—even individually taken—does not constitute a commercial activity, that is, it does not generate income.
So even if the Tax Agency were to detect a series of incoming bank transfers and cash deposits from the sale of used items, it cannot demand payment of taxes.
When collecting remains within the scope of a hobby and does not turn into a true commercial activity, it is certainly lawful to resell some pieces or exchange them for others without having to declare the income to the tax authorities.
The Tax Agency has also dealt, in a special circular [2], with the sale of gold coins, jewelry, or furniture and high-antique items, acquired mainly through inheritance. The question posed to the administration is whether the proceeds from such sales should be considered income and therefore taxed. Can the chosen sales channel, for example the internet or an auction, make a difference to the tax treatment? The Revenue Agency recalled that the law provides a closed list of what incomes are subject to taxation [3]. Only gold coins have income value, but not jewelry or antique goods if sold without a particular use of organizational means (for example sales agents, a secretary, call center, software, etc.).
The same applies to the sale of used goods. The absence of a speculative intent excludes that the sale of second-hand items creates taxable income. On the other hand, the sale of handmade items (homemade) such as tomato preserves, colored T-shirts, necklaces made of fake beads, etc. does. This is occasional business income. The solution is the same also in the case of self-employment with a VAT number.
In short, the sale of used items or collectible pieces, if carried out by a natural person acting in a private capacity, is not subject to taxation.
Sale of an antique item: does it have to be declared?
The same principles just listed for the sale of collectible items also apply to antique items. The sale of antique items or collectibles, in order to be relevant for IRPEF purposes and constitute a taxable base, requires a speculative intent. Such intent can be inferred when the sale takes place with an organization made up of people (for example assistants, telephone operators, intermediaries) or means (for example management software). The absence of this condition leads to the exclusion of speculative intent.
notes
[1] Ctr Lazio ruling no. 9312/18.
[2] Revenue Agency circular no. 165/E/1998.
[3] Article 67 of the Consolidated Law on Income Taxes.
aumaldo
·1 year agoI did a quick calculation. To avoid ending up among the sellers suspected by the Italian Revenue Agency of carrying out professional activity, I would need more than 5000 (five thousand) years to sell all my collections on Ebay...
marioelegio
·1 year agoHave you never photographed your collection and maybe posted photos and lists in some swap groups, etc…?
I often put photos of my collection in fb groups and this could help me prove that I have had these items in my possession for years.
hi
mario
aumaldo
·1 year agoNever on Facebook; I posted some generic photos on a specialized site. But, precisely, the images essentially show large blocks, not individual pieces (which are about 150 thousand); and, moreover, over time most of the images are no longer visible on the site.
quartzdrive
·1 year agoI still wonder, since the directive is already a few years old and almost a year has passed since the last revision, how come on Ebay the limit for "free" listings, even for private sellers, has still remained at 150 items per month? That would be 1,800 items in twelve months, so why has Ebay, for private/occasional sellers/without VAT number, still not set a per-item limit/annual revenue limit for sales? There are two things I suspect: that they want to collect more detailed data to deal better with the "problem" of tax evasion, and then modify the conditions to make everything clearer and more detailed, or else that, as often happens, they want to get as many people as possible caught in the trap and pay for an entire year's worth.
aumaldo
·1 year agoI think there isn't a match between the data that the ADE requests from eBay and the data for which the ADE “accuses you of being a professional seller.” So eBay communicates to the ADE whatever it is asked for, without that meaning it considers you a “professional seller.” In reality, what criteria (which differ from each other) are used by both eBay and the ADE, you only find out when you receive a related notice.
quartzdrive
·1 year agoWell, but if it were like that, it would be as if the traffic regulations that impose a maximum highway speed limit of 130 km/h and then once on the highway the company that manages it encouraged you to exceed the limits with signs indicating 160 km/h, then I would find out I was in the wrong at my own expense only if I were to receive notice of a fine, it’s not exactly a very consistent situation.
marioelegio
·1 year agoTo paraphrase your example: almost all modern cars easily exceed 150 km/h, then you find out you were wrong at your own expense, if you were to receive a notice of a fine, given that road traffic rules impose a maximum highway speed limit of 130 km/h.
The limits to follow are those set by law, there can be no excuse if they are different from those indicated by ebay.
Final thought: if you can easily prove ownership, as a personal asset, of what you sell, you can safely make 150 sales a month while remaining a private individual and without owing anything to the tax agency.
hi
mario
aumaldo
·1 year agoBasically, Ebay can’t tell you in which cases you would be considered a professional seller ...because it doesn’t know! Just like I don’t know, and because of a "slippery" regulation, nobody knows. The ADE asks Ebay (and similar platforms) how many sales we make in a year and what the net total amount of the sales is. But it’s not said that these data, if exceeded, will necessarily make you a professional seller; simply, the ADE could decide to "keep an eye on you".
sika700
·1 year agoIn my view, you might know... DAC7 was conceived to catch the scammers, not to find out whether you're a private seller or a professional one on ebay!
If you buy specifically to resell, it's obvious that you know yourself that you're a merchant!
If you have a sales system that is organized and involves large quantities of used items, you know yourself that you're a merchant!
If you have a few items, for which you can prove the provenance, then you can rest easy.
Then ADE will cross-check the data that ebay sends it based on what you declare, and if the difference is significant, the warning will be triggered and in that case it will be up to you to prove your income.
Best regards.
aumaldo
·1 year agoObviously I know whether I’m a private individual selling items in my possession for decades or a professional seller ...and I am, in fact, absolutely a private seller. The problem is that what I know is not necessarily the same as what the ADE thinks. And this is because the term "occasional" is, in any case, very vague and lends itself to different interpretations. And then "occasional" in what sense? In buying and selling, or even in simple selling?
ortofantastico
·1 year agoin fact the Revenue Agency will not react (except in specific cases) with a tax assessment notice, but with a compliance request.
aumaldo
·1 year agoSorry, let me understand. In practical terms, what would ADE do?
aumaldo
·1 year agoObviously, I had gotten the message, but, to avoid causing confusion, I preferred to respond to the substance of it. Thanks, anyway.
aumaldo
·1 year agoI'm asking anyone who's already been through this for 2023. Is the communication that eBay sends to the Tax Agency also sent to the user concerned?
I'll add one thought. Ironically, if things were to take the most feared turn, users who sell items they've owned for decades would pay, for the same sale amount, a personal income tax far higher than that paid by professional sellers.
marioelegio
·1 year agoUsers who actually sell items that had been their property do not have to pay any IRPEF, even if they exceed the limits of Dac7.
This regulation is mainly intended to flush out those illegal traders who hide behind the trade in used goods.
I have sold my used car several times and neither I nor my accountant ever thought to include the amount earned in the tax return (since there was no speculative purpose in the sale).
bye
mario
aumaldo
·1 year agoThank you for your reply. I have already set aside a ruling in this regard, as well as some legal opinions. The problem is that the tax authority tries to wear you down. Since the burden of proof in this case lies with the citizen, anyone who sells items in their possession for decades is often required to prove it. I, for example, own a collection of about 150,000 pieces bought over the last 70 years or so. Now I’m getting on in years and I’d like to recoup at least half of what I spent, but clearly I have no purchase receipts, and selling such a quantity of objects can only attract the tax authority’s greed.
mocer-75
·1 year agoJust a reminder (but for laughs, eh) that in Italy you elect parliament, not the president or the government.
aumaldo
·2 years agoAnother doubt. How is the number of transactions counted in the case of multiple purchases (with or without cart) by a single buyer, if the related amount is paid to me by Ebay in a single payment? Thanks.
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoThe buyer shouldn’t have to worry about DAC7.
The seller who sells 3 multiple items to the same buyer for 200 euros each is almost certainly counted for DAC7 purposes as 3 sales and 600 euros.
Personally I’m not interested in these dynamics as I HAVE NO INTENTION of sitting there keeping the "ACCOUNTS" and tallying amounts and sales across the various marketplaces....
Besides ebay I use vinted, marketplace and subito, so we’ll see what there is in concrete terms when the limits are exceeded.
Kind regards.
aumaldo
·2 years agoOkay! I’m obviously speaking as a seller, not a buyer, and since I’ve made a few sales starting in November, I’d be curious to know by what criteria those from 2024 will be counted for me. Therefore, I’m asking anyone who may have received a 2023 statement and checked the calculations what criteria were used. Thanks.
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoI hope someone answers your question, because I simply put my personal items up for sale and don’t pay attention to these issues.
I keep an approximate tally of how much I’ve sold, but nothing more.
It doesn’t matter to me; if I get an assessment, I’m certainly not going to go crazy trying to prove the unprovable. I’ll pay what they claim, but then THEY WON’T SEE ME AGAIN.
To defend yourself, you have to bring in a professional and pay them, and then if you’re right you still have to pay a fine, so......
As I see it, below 5,000 euros in annual online sales they shouldn’t be bothering to put a tax code under the microscope, let alone for 2,000 euros.......
Kind regards.
aumaldo
·2 years agoI also sell exclusively personal items in my possession from the 1950s onward in LARGE quantities. And I'm not afraid of IRPEF, which, according to established rulings, I am not required to pay. Simply put, I like to try to make hypotheses about the various future possibilities and, where possible, I try to stay informed.
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoIf you use the money on PayPal for purchases/payments and don’t move it into your current account, there’s less chance of being checked.
This is a video from last year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOkaZTbHiz4
But I think sooner or later all online payment systems, including PayPal, will adapt....
For remote sales, I see it as TOUGH....
As long as they let us use cash, it’ll be possible to do hand-to-hand exchanges locally.
Alternatively, the only practical solution in my opinion could be one where the marketplace takes care of charging the tax cost directly from the selling commissions, so users could go back to selling without so much fear and worry.
I’d even be fine paying a tiered tax percentage directly to the marketplace.
For example:
From 0 to 2000 euros I pay nothing
From 2000 to 5000 I pay 5%
From 5000 to 10000 I pay 8%
From 10000 to 20000 I pay 10%
And so on.......
The big problem in my opinion is precisely the fear that builds up when you sell.
You have to be careful to keep track if you sell on multiple marketplaces.
If you go over 2000 euros, you have to live with the anxiety and dread of someone who doesn’t know what they’re supposed to do, whether to declare it or not.......
Best regards.
aumaldo
·2 years agoThis idea of paying a fixed percentage of taxes (even though I wouldn’t be the one who should pay them...) through the MarketPlace wouldn’t bother me, as long as it gets the AdE off my p@ll€...
aumaldo
·2 years agoOk, as far as IRPEF is concerned, there is a difference between selling and buying and selling, even though, in any case, it is practically impossible to prove the origin of stuff acquired 20, 40, 60 years earlier, unless it is material of a particular nature.
In any case, the issue of VAT would remain, which would seem to be mandatory in the case of sales through intermediaries (in this case Ebay). Anyway, for the moment the guy is staying on the sidelines, ...despite not being so young anymore...
marioelegio
·2 years agoIn real transactions between private individuals there is no VAT and ebay is not considered an intermediary.
The VAT margin scheme applies precisely to dealers in used items.
bye
mario
aumaldo
·2 years agoThat’s where the problem arises. I believe that Ebay and the other online sales platforms are now considered intermediaries. IRPEF wouldn’t be relevant, but VAT would come into play in this case for continuous sales organized through intermediaries. What would be needed is legal certainty or a ruling saying whether Ebay is an intermediary or not. I believe I have read that it is. But I hope to read something that proves me wrong.
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoThe problem, or problems, arise from several angles, each seller seeing things from their own point of view.
Over the years, Ebay has developed algorithms that are quite reliable and able to intercept “anomalies” in sales by fake private sellers.
When this happens, ebay contacts you and asks for a series of information and if these are not provided, the seller account is barred from sales.
No user knows in detail how these algorithms are set up because they are quite sophisticated, but it can reasonably be estimated that a private individual selling used items in a single category or similar categories, who can be compared to a collector or an electronics enthusiast for example, who sells less than 1000 euros a month in used items and not new ones, is not flagged by ebay.
Now with DAC7, what happens is that ebay will probably continue to work through its algorithms, but once the 2000 euro threshold is exceeded, it will send a report to the tax authorities.
So the tax authorities receive a report from ebay that user xyz has exceeded the sales limits.
This already creates discomfort and hassle for anyone because we are talking about 166 euros a month in sales.
Now I don't think that an illicit seller can be satisfied with 166 euros in monthly sales, where maybe the profits are, if things go well, from 50% to 10% of the total sold.
These rules were designed (in my opinion) to eliminate all those private individuals who do NOT identify themselves as simple consumers who, once an item is no longer needed, just throw it straight in the trash.
According to these GENTLEMEN, if I buy the latest iPhone, MacBook, etc., after a few years of use I should put it in a drawer to collect dust and buy the newly released one at full price.
And what if I want to buy a used notebook directly at half price because I am not interested in buying the latest tech releases at full price and I prefer to buy it used at half or less than the price of a new notebook?
Very likely in the future, with no more private individuals willing to be put under the tax authorities' magnifying glass and having to justify sales above 2000 euros, we will have to settle for buying on PRIMITIVE and heavily UNSAFE platforms or conclude deals in person, with all the RISKS and UNFORESEEN issues that come with it.
In practice, we are going back to square one, with the difference that 25~30 years ago there was much more RESPECT, SERIOUSNESS, AND FAIRNESS among people and in Italian society in general, and not like today, when attempted scams are the order of the day and SCAM is now a term on everyone's lips.
Kind regards.
aumaldo
·2 years agoI believe, anyway, that all platforms (even the small ones) are required to report that data to the AdE.
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoOn subito with tuttoesubito you are included in the count.
If instead you sell without using subito's buyer protection then you are not included because you deal directly with the seller/buyer by bypassing subito.
Then I don't know how direct PayPal sales work....
Technically PayPal is not a marketplace, so you could also sell remotely with the buyer using PayPal, but I wouldn't bet my life on it.....
Keep in mind that 2000 euros a year are TOTAL across all enabled platforms, so the fact that there is already a shared database among these marketplaces linked to your tax code is not exactly an exciting thing.
Best regards.
aumaldo
·2 years agoOk, thanks. Apart from Subito (without buyer protection), I could sell through some forums or through certain Facebook pages set up for that purpose. Anyway, for now, I’ll keep going here a little longer to see how things develop...
aumaldo
·2 years agoThanks for the answer, but the problem also applies to private individuals. If so-and-so has a collection he has been building for (say) 66 years and this collection is made up of (say) around 150,000 items that the collector would like to resell (retail) at a price even half of the purchase price (sold as a lot he might get 20%, not 50), how could he do that if sales have to be occasional? And if the sales were not occasional and the collector were (say) 73 years old, how long would he have to live to complete the sales?
marioelegio
·2 years agoThere are no sales limits between private individuals for materials whose provenance can be demonstrated. You can easily exceed the limits imposed by DAC7 regulations and then assert your rights in the event of an audit.
It is important, I repeat, that the items were not purchased for the purpose of reselling them for profit; in that case there would also be a continuous and organized form (on a platform), and you would become an unlicensed trader.
hi
mario
aumaldo
·2 years agoAs far as you know, has the 2018 ruling below been superseded by later ones? Thanks.
This is a summary, but at the bottom the details of the ruling and the law are given.
https://www.laleggepertutti.it/270248_vendita-tra-privati-di-oggetti-da-collezione-va-dichiarata#:~:text=In%20sintesi%20la%20vendita%20di%20oggetti%20usati%20o,oggetti%20da%20collezione%20vale%20per%20quelli%20di%20antiquariato.
marioelegio
·2 years agoWe’ve talked about it several times: the sale of one’s own items by a private individual does not have to be declared and is not subject to taxation. So what you found is still valid, of course with the caveat that ownership of the item must have been for a long time (that is, for years), whereas anyone who buys to resell continuously is in every respect a trader and cannot be considered a collector (otherwise all antique dealers would be just simple collectors).
The DAC7 regulation requires eBay to report to the tax agency private individuals who have a suspicious sales volume; then it will be the agency that has checks carried out to verify whether it is a real private individual or just an illicit seller.
hi
mario
mamo-730055
·2 years agoGood evening, I have carefully read the whole issue.
Personally, I think I’ll withdraw the items I have for sale.
At the moment I’m at 25 sales for a total of €300, I’ve always seen eBay as something fun
and not for profit.
I sell things I’ve used and what I make from them I almost always spend again on something else on the platform
(usually books). I know this is irrelevant to the issue.
But I already have a job and a family... honestly, I really don’t feel like getting into trouble with the Revenue Agency, the tax authorities, or the like.
Thanks for your attention
actar80
OP2 years agoActually, it wouldn't be worth the risk, but since you've already completed 25 sales, you could leave only 2 or 3 listings active so that you reach a maximum of 27/28 sales in 2024; as for the amount, you don't have any problems since you're only at 300 euros.
You can start selling the other things next year.
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoGood evening mamo
Honestly, I’m not sure how much “fun” there can be in selling online from a distance....
I personally don’t find it fun, because listing items for sale, managing them, shipping, and after-sales service takes time, dedication, and could involve risks and/or losses of money
If you resell an item and make money from it, in my opinion that is for profit, unless you pass that item on for a symbolic price, or donate / give it away.
DAC7 was created to regulate an aspect of sales that had not yet been regulated.
Considering that the constant addition of regulations over the years has led to a MASS migration of private users who were on this marketplace to other places, I’d say that with this DAC7 we can definitely draw the curtain on the private users left on eBay.
I believe you can спокойно continue with your sales on other channels.
Besides hand-to-hand exchanges over distance, which could be limiting, there are various thematic groups on FB for collectors where you can still start negotiations safely with payments via PayPal.
Do PayPal and DAC7 have anything in common? for now, as I understand it, PayPal is not a marketplace and has no obligation to report data on completed sales.
So if you keep your electronic PayPal payments under a reasonable threshold (certainly above €2000 per year) you can be relatively calm.
For now I continue selling on eBay while waiting for further developments.
Best regards.
mamo-730055
·2 years agoGood evening,
as far as I'm concerned, the " fun " is in the fact that if I have a book, for example, I paid 20 for it and resell it for 5 net, by selling 4 I can get a new one .. in that sense I mean that these 20 bucks don't change my life, especially since I always spend them again on other things and almost always here .
As for the time to waste.. it takes me 5 minutes to wrap the package, fill out the payment slip and I have the post office 5 minutes from work and on my lunch break it costs me nothing ... I know it's subjective , but shipping is an aspect of the matter that doesn't weigh on me.
Anyway, I called on three different days and spoke with three different operators and they all tell me that the 30 sales thing is symbolic ( ? ) .. what matters is not exceeding 2k .. because you can sell 3 things at 1k each .. but also 100 at 1 euro .. in that sense they say it's the sum of the money that rules ..
For now I've left something up for sale because I have room to spare ... we'll see how it develops
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoI had already given the example some time ago of a seller X who decides to sell 30 stamps / coins / phone cards, etc. at a price of 1 euro
In these cases the tax agency would find itself having to handle reports that in my view are false positives, because they are sellers who have sold 30 euros worth of items 😎
Probably even those at eBay have realized that this story about 30 sales is a bit of a stretch.
We are all waiting to hear more about the further developments.
Best regards
heavenwelkin
·2 years agomocer-75
·2 years agoLots of words and little substance; as usual, they’re blaming the EU again — it’s all the rage in this historical period...
As for tax evasion in Italy, in the vast majority of cases it is the domain of small and micro businesses, even if populist parties love to rant about how bad multinationals and banks are, taxing excess profits and other nonsense like that.
The directive is European, obviously, but then it is transposed by the individual states that are part of the Union; in our country it was transposed with Legislative Decree no. 32/2023, which established the famous 30 transactions and/or €2,000 in annual revenue, so not the EU, but the Italian state — those who have ears to hear, let them hear; the others can go around pretending to be patriots.
As for the rest, nothing is known at the moment, since it is a fairly recent regulation and given the pace at which the Italian revenue agency moves, I think we’ll have to wait a bit longer before having any real feedback; the general criteria for defining sales as a commercial activity are 3:
frequency of sales
nature of the items sold
the intention to make a profit
Then, if the tax agency asks for clarification, it’ll be enough to say: they’re items I had in the cellar/attic/garage and which I decided to get rid of, and then they’ll reply: ok bye. Or will they ask for further proof? As of today, it’s impossible to know. I’ll close by saying that nothing prevents you from declaring the sales (net of expenses incurred) in the miscellaneous income section, when filing your tax return.
quartzdrive
·2 years agoI followed this discussion with great interest (read it in full today), I was hoping to get some more info and clear up a few doubts, but unfortunately everything remains unchanged.
What I have not been able to read anywhere, not even on government sites, is something about extra-threshold earnings; to put it simply, once you go over the sales/earnings limit, am I taxable or liable to penalties as a private individual? If in one year I earned €6000 from the proceeds of various sales on e-commerce platforms and did not want/have a VAT number but still wanted to fulfill my tax obligations, would that be possible? How?
In my opinion this is yet another load of nonsense from the EU and government propaganda about the obsession with tax evasion, but which is completely at odds with the other propaganda, that of the WEF and various gurus against consumerism, green, pollution, climate change, yellow-coat miss and so on and so on, who preach so much about regeneration, reuse, waste... well, I sell what I no longer need or what I have not used for a long time, items I care about a lot but that over the years and with the changes in my life I can no longer keep; limiting these "exchanges" is, in my opinion, at odds with what they have been feeding us for years as the new creed. What could be more green than giving an object a purpose again or a new life? And going back to the issue of sales limits, these items for which I paid in full, paying the taxes on the purchase, I pay them again at the time of resale, as well as on the shipping cost, in addition to the rightful fees of the platform that allowed me this exchange, how much and what else should I pay? If I said any nonsense, feel free to correct me, I am here to ask, not to state.
actar80
OP2 years agoActually, there aren’t many articles circulating about this regulation, so I think various doubts have been left hanging for everyone. If I find more articles, I’ll update the post.
I totally agree with you about the EU’s nonsense. Just think about how they deny the existence of factory farms (see journalist Giulia Innocenzi’s investigation) because lobbyists hand them envelopes stuffed with bribes, and then they say that in the future cars will have to be only electric, and yet they don’t notice the pollution caused by extracting the materials for batteries in non-EU countries where there are no environmental regulations (see Report/Presa diretta investigations), and I could go on...
They talk a lot about green and they don’t know what the hell they’re talking about.
As you say, what could be more green than giving an object a sense or a new life, and it has to be acknowledged that eBay has given meaning and a new destination to objects from the past that before were often thrown in the trash because other platforms or local newspapers were limited in their ability to connect supply and demand.
You weren’t wrong in your analysis, we are all private sellers (except for illegal ones) a bit the victims of this regulation, and I think the first to suffer from it is eBay itself, which built its fortune and lived through the platform’s golden years on private sellers and vintage items (owned by them). From what I can see from my personal experience, there isn’t much interesting stuff left, at least in the categories I follow. I think many private sellers have stopped. And it’s private sellers who have vintage and used items in their homes or garages; for new items there are plenty of sites, first and foremost Amazon, which ships for free if you have a Prime subscription or if you spend a minimum amount, and I think it will be hard for eBay to compete on new items.
If you sell a collection of any kind (stamps, publications, packets, favors, etc.), or objects and/or furniture that you’ve had at home for years, if not for decades, it’s obvious that you’re not selling because you run a professional sales business, but because you’re selling to get rid of what you no longer need or what you want to dispose of.
Even if you go over the limits, you can still remain a private seller. The problem could be proving it in the event of an inspection.
With this regulation they wanted to target the tax evasion of certain professional sellers who were disguising themselves as private sellers, but they shot at random and ended up hurting private sellers too.
The regulation should be revised and improved.
quartzdrive
·2 years agoI thank both of you for the replies, focusing on the last line of actar80: The regulations should be revised and improved. It would have been all much simpler and more convenient for everyone if at each sale a percentage were directly deducted from the sale, as Ebay does, precisely. It would have been yet another brake, but at least it would have simplified the procedures, made the revenue for the tax authorities secure, and last but more important, it would have eliminated any bureaucratic and administrative hassle, but as experience has taught me since I have been in Italy, they do everything they can to trap people and the few they catch are fleeced properly so that they pay for all the others. Unfortunately it is always the poor Christs (called "the clever ones") who end up in that situation, while the real CLEVER ONES and tax evaders cruise around in luxury cars and go on holiday on yachts, good evening
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoeBay already collects VAT on behalf of the state; as soon as everything is ready, it will almost certainly also take care of collecting "what is due" directly when it receives payment from the buyer.
There are many private individuals who sell more or less continuously, who may declare themselves unemployed and do not file any tax return.
Then we'll have to see how much tax will be paid; if we're talking about figures in the range of 20% and up, then for eBay it won't be a happy situation.
To do a truly EFFECTIVE job, the various marketplaces should ban sale listings with in-person handover on site, which have now become by far the majority of sale listings.
If that weren't the case, eBay would lose most of its private users.
In any case, it's worth remembering that we Italians:
We pay the state taxes on the money we earn...
The taxes on the money we spend..
The taxes on the things we buy..
And then we pay taxes on the things we own, on which we've already paid taxes when we bought them with previously taxed money..
Then we pay the state to inherit the house our parents had bought and for which they had already paid taxes and contributions ..
Then we pay the IMU, the TARES, the TASI, the TARSU, the TOSA....the stamp duty...
We pay excise duties on alcohol, tobacco, and energy products (for example, 48% excise duty on gasoline)
ETC, ETC......
Kind regards.
actar80
OP2 years agoLatest interesting article, link to the page below the title.
DAC7 Directive: compliance guide for platforms and online sellers
https://www.avaibook.com/it/blog/direttiva-dac7-guida-alla-compliance-per-piattaforme-e-venditori-online/
daxsisko
·2 years agofor those interested in DAC7, the eBay regulations specify some interesting things (which, if I'm not mistaken, have appeared fairly recently ..... )
link : https://www.ebay.it/help/selling/selling/direttiva-dac7-legge-sulla-trasparenza-fiscale-delle-piattaforme-obblighi-di-comunicazione-materia-di-vendite?id=5394
I quote verbatim the part I consider interesting at the link above:
What is reported under the DAC7/PStTG directive
If we need to report your data under the DAC7/PStTG directive, we will provide you with a copy of the data reported to the tax authorities in a PDF file. A CSV file containing the transactions used to calculate the totals in the PDF will also be available. The data contained in the CSV file is shared only with you and is not reported to the tax authorities. As soon as the PDF and CSV files are available, you will receive an email and a notification on your eBay account. You can download both reports in Seller Hub or in My eBay.
Here's how:
it can be inferred, in short (also reading the DAC7 regulations): if eBay reports the data for DAC7 to the authorities (see reaching the indicated thresholds.....), it must also report it to the interested party and create (or allow the creation of...) the report in the indicated section....
actar80
OP2 years agoAccording to the page excerpt quoted in your post, eBay should have created the reports since the first communications regarding 2023 took place in January.
At this point, we're waiting for some input from private seller users who have the aforementioned PDF/CSV file available, even though many don't read anything either on the forum or online and will only complain when they run into problems.
s-funk70
·1 year ago@daxsisko
I read and agree with what you wrote.
The question I’m asking myself is the following:
Since the DAC7 directive came into force on 01/01/2023, will tax assessments start from that date?
Thanks
daxsisko
·1 year agonot necessarily : to sum it up, DAC7 requires E-commerce sites to report the data of sellers who exceed certain thresholds, then an assessment may or may not be triggered by the A.d.E. (and this also independently of DAC7 and its entry into force......) : the data communicated are, in fact, one more tool for the A.d.E. to carry out checks ....
vonbalden
·1 year agos-funk, it's necessary to wait before being so strict in understanding the mechanism of DACO7, at least until we know more about the brand-new European program that the legendary Vonderleyen herself has, in these tumultuous days, entrusted to Draghi. Things are like this: although he was not voted for by anyone, 'our' Draghi was chosen by the EPP to consolidate the overall vision that the party cares about. Despite voters having voted against the old coalition, hoping for a new political direction, the European People's Party sided exactly with the same people as before (the supporters of DACO) and did not take into account at all the air of renewal that was blowing. This new European program will be full of brand-new surprises that no one is expecting for now. Among other things, it was drafted by an unknown person. At least unknown to those who are not familiar with the EPP, evidently. So it is right to wait to learn what other novelties await us, and then on these pages we will study more carefully what to do. If there is still anything left for us to sell or buy. A super European greeting to everyone.
technopartsbay
·1 year agoDear Von, evidently "the experiment" done in Italy (that is: how to govern for 12 years without being elected) worked well and they decided to replicate it in the EU... 😃
(We laugh 😃 so as not to 😭...)
Big hellos!
actar80
OP2 years agoHere is the DAC 7 page directly from the Revenue Agency website:
https://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it/portale/it/web/guest/scambio-automatico-di-informazioni-comunicate-dai-gestori-di-piattaforme-dac7/infogen-scambio-automatico-di-informazioni-comunicate-dai-gestori-di-piattaforme-dac7-imprese
On the left, inside the "answers to the most frequently asked questions" section, you'll find the FAQs.
actar80
OP2 years ago2 more articles found on the topic:
https://sovos.com/it/blog/iva/il-consiglio-dellue-approva-le-norme-dac7-sulla-segnalazione-fiscale-della-piattaforma-digitale/
https://www.albertocaschili.it/blog/f/definizione-e-implicazioni-per-le-piattaforme-digitali-della-direttiva-dac7/
------------- As can be seen from the articles:
The new DAC7 tax rules require digital platforms to report the income earned by sellers on their platforms to EU tax authorities. As a result, reportable activities will include:
DAC7 therefore applies to online platforms such as Shopify, Ebay, Amazon but also Booking, AirBnB, Vinted, Wallapop and other digital operators, which are required to communicate the information of the players on them to the competent authorities.
actar80
OP2 years agoLatest 2 articles found on the topic:
https://www.legalefiscale.it/ecommerce/direttiva-dac-7-e-commerce-e-la-paura-degli-occasionali/
https://www.commercialistatelematico.com/articoli/notizie-fiscali/dac7-e-diventata-legge-prima-comunicazione-il-3112024
As indicated in the second article, the first communication will take place on 31/01/2024.
actar80
OP2 years agoMore articles on the topic:
https://www.dirittobancario.it/art/dac-7-il-dossier-per-lentrata-in-vigore-in-italia/
https://www.dirittobancario.it/art/dac-7-in-gazzetta-ufficiale-il-testo-del-decreto-di-attuazione/
kittyc-1091
·2 years agoSorry, I’m bugging everyone, but the two times I contacted customer service they gave me two different answers, so I trust whoever’s running this conversation more!
One operator told me the year is the calendar year, so I shouldn’t sell more than 29 items in 2023.
Another operator (who, however, seemed more professional to me) told me that the year starts when you created the profile (or from the first sale, sorry, I don’t remember exactly) but that in any case — for me, in this case — the year runs from August 1, 2022 to July 31, 2023, and now the new one from August 1, 2023 to July 31, 2024; so I would have sold only 6 items “in this year,” so I could still be calm for another 23 sales. Can you tell me what the truth is? It’s very different!!! I’m also afraid of not getting eBay’s notice in time.
But then if it’s understood that you’re a private seller and you’re disposing of goods that were definitely part of a private collection - some toy, comic book... never two copies of the same item, or everything new and still wrapped, why does the tax agency have to suck our blood? When I sold (in Rome) at the Barbie market that takes place once a year I made a good amount of money, but — legally — nobody declares anything... it’s like as kids selling old Topolino comics on the bench in the park. At least my generation did.
For those who had asked on Subito.it : I wrote and received the reply by email, so black and white: "Subito contacts the tax agency after 2500 euros, not based on number of sales, and ONLY IF it deems it appropriate. In other words, the email made it very clear that they do not do it
thanks a lot to anyone who will reply!!
Silvia
marioelegio
·2 years agoAll platforms are legally required to collect and report to the AdE the details relating to sellers who reach a certain amount of sales.
This law came into force on January 1, 2023, and the report must be made every calendar year (so it starts on January 1 of each year). The first report is due on January 31, 2024 (for the 2023 calendar year).
What the limits are:
The report to AdE does not imply anything automatic; only possible suspicious cases are flagged. Then you can be heavily fined even for a single illegal sale of a few euros, or be perfectly compliant while selling family heirlooms for 15000 euros (you just have to be able to prove it in case of a tax audit).
hi
mario
kittyc-1091
·2 years agothank you so much!!!!!
daxsisko
·2 years agobelow is the link to the reference Ebay page, available for some months now:
https://www.ebay.it/help/selling/selling/direttiva-dac7-legge-sulla-trasparenza-fiscale-delle-piattaforme-obblighi-di-comunicazione-materia-di-vendite?id=5394&st=3&pos=2&query=Direttiva%20DAC7%20e%20legge%20sulla%20trasparenza%20fiscale%20delle%20piattaforme%20-%20Obblighi%20di%20comunicazione%20in%20materia%20di%20vendite&intent=dac7&lucenceai=lucenceai&docId=HELP1733
Various brief thoughts:
it’s typical for agents to say different things about DAC7 (and it’s already a lot if some even know what it is......);
if you ask the various platforms (so not just eBay....) each one has its own interpretation (Subito’s is very wrong........) ;
the directive was applied late by Italy with a law that has retroactive value (so it can be challenged, since laws are generally valid only after they come into force );
eBay in fact already has the data (I remember that for two years there has been the payments manager and sellers must already have provided the relevant data): it’s not impossible that eBay communicates the mandatory data (probably in January 2024) and at the same time (a little before or a little after) tells the various sellers that it has sent the data (after all, it’s a legal obligation.....);
then....... I’ll stop because I’m going to lunch......
micamunch
·2 years agoSubito has also published the relevant page, in line with the regulations and with Ebay's.
https://assistenza.subito.it/hc/it/articles/10473040694556-Normativa-DAC7
One technical detail that hasn't been mentioned so far: since Ebay is legally based in Germany, the data will be transmitted to the German tax authority, which will then sort it out to all the other European ones according to the country of residence. Not a small task, which has to follow precise protocols, and may encounter various kinds of problems.
Basically, the German federal tax office takes on the handling and sorting of the data in the most extensive and continuous tax data exchange ever to take place in Europe. Without, however, gaining any advantage in terms of increased collection.
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoGood morning micamunch
Long before DAC7, Ebay was already handling (and still does handle) the collection of VAT for purchases from outside Europe on behalf of the tax agency, up to an amount of 150 euros.
I won't get into technical hypotheses, but if that's anything to go by, I don't see any obstacles from this point of view.
Personally, I don't see DAC7 as a destination, but rather as a starting point for much more IMPORTANT changes.
At the current state of things, if I intend not to pay taxes and I already have various outstanding debts with the tax authorities, with or without DAC7 nothing changes for me, because I would keep on not paying anything.
Excerpt from an article in Corriere della Sera: 16 Jul 2023 — There are about fifteen million Italians with a tax debt of up to 30 thousand euros
In Italy, at present, paying taxes is left to the taxpayer's discretion, who depending on their situation / economic / work condition can choose whether to pay EVERYTHING / SOMETHING / or NOTHING
Kind regards.
pimp_my_cards
·2 years agoWith this DAC07, a ticking time bomb has been set, and no one knows if or when it will blow up. For private individuals, those who have gone over by just a little, in my opinion, have absolutely nothing to fear, as a blanket check is in fact impossible. Those who have instead made certain figures would do well to do the math and at least get a consultation with a professional to see what is best to do based on their own situation.
molomerci
·2 years agoIf the "certain figures" are under 85,000 euros a year in sales, the "professional" will advise you to open a new VAT number under the flat-rate regime, chamber of commerce registration, INPS tradespeople management, and SCIA for e-commerce (all of this perhaps for less than 500 if you do NOT turn to a "professional", i.e. through ComUnica).
And they should also enlighten you about the related contributions and taxes, net of their own fees, if you want to entrust them to them; I remind you that it is not mandatory.
Getting to the point of the matter, "how much would I pay in taxes and contributions", I have prepared a little chart based on a spreadsheet, which I can also share if you want.
IT is assumed that:
Be aware that the continuation of the current flat-rate tax regime (i.e. exemption from keeping accounting records and other obligations, application and management of VAT on purchases and sales) is certain only through the end of 2024, as it is subject to EU approval.
These are simple facts that anyone can verify in a few minutes of research; I am not making any other kind of consideration, and if I have made a mistake in my calculations I apologize and will correct them.
actar80
OP2 years agoIt is hoped that at least at the beginning, since this is an initial phase, they will let private individuals who have not exceeded the limits by much slide.
daxsisko
·2 years agotypical example of an anachronistic poster:
1 ) Subito had already largely modified the relevant page after my post, correcting the OBVIOUS errors: so making a post referring to mine months later and especially after Subito had changed its rules says it all .........
2) the "technical detail" you refer to can be seen by reading the DAC7 text, then if we want to be honest, in another post already (see link below) message 15, the same thing had been clarified, more than two months earlier:
https://community.ebay.it/t5/Novit%C3%A0-per-i-venditori/DAC7-LA-NORMATIVA-TIENE-CONTO-DELLE-TRANSAZIONI-O-ANCHE-DEL/td-p/983907/page/2
advice: instead of posting at 5:30 in the morning, better to sleep...... assuming you weren't doing both things....... anyway, yet another "phenomenon" who posts and then disappears into thin air....