NEW EU REGULATION! WATCH OUT FOR THE TAX AGENCY
IF YOU HAVE AN EBAY STORE, FROM JANUARY 1st EBAY IS OBLIGED TO COMMUNICATE YOUR TAX CODE TO THE REVENUE AGENCY FOR TAX CHECKS IF YOU HAVE SOLD MORE THAN €2,000. NOT 2,000 IN PROFIT BUT A TOTAL OF JUST €2,000 IN SALES, €166.66 A MONTH!!! ON THESE AMOUNTS THEY MAY REQUEST PAYMENT OF TAXES AND CONTRIBUTIONS!!!! IF YOU INTEND TO GO BACK TO BEING A PRIVATE SELLER, ACCORDING TO EBAY YOU WILL NO LONGER BE ABLE TO DO SO AND YOU WILL BE FORCED TO CLOSE THE ACCOUNT, YOU WILL LOSE ALL FEEDBACK AND START AGAIN FROM 0. I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO MAKE A COMPLAINT BUT EBAY DOES NOT PROVIDE AN EMAIL FOR ITS LEGAL DEPARTMENT, BUT AN ANONYMOUS ADDRESS IN GERMANY (WHERE MAYBE YOU HAVE TO WRITE IN GERMAN...) TO WHICH A REGISTERED LETTER MUST BE SENT (IS PEC ONLY MANDATORY IN ITALY???). IN SHORT, I AM LEAVING EBAY, CLOSING EVERYTHING BEFORE 31.12.2023 AND LIMITING MYSELF TO SELLING AS A PRIVATE SELLER WITH A NEW ACCOUNT, STAYING WITHIN THE €2,000 ANNUAL LIMIT.... I THINK EBAY HAS NOT UNDERSTOOD THAT ALL ONLINE STORES WILL CLOSE, BUT FOR NOW IT IS SAYING NOTHING AND IS NOT PUBLICIZING THIS SITUATION WHICH OBVIOUSLY ALSO AFFECTS SUBITO.IT, DELCAMPE ETC.... GOODBYE EBAY!!!!
maryna_1
·1 year agoI am a professional seller and I issue a tax invoice for every sale; I don't see what the problem is if the sale is recorded and, above all, the VAT is recorded.
Different is the case of those who do not produce documentation for sales or the fake private sellers who, in my opinion, are still too many; they should be weeded out.
marioelegio
·1 year agoIn fact, for professional sellers the DAC7 regulation is certainly not a problem. Reporting a business that invoices more than 2000 euros to the tax agency makes no sense; if anything, the suspicious ones would be professionals who declare ridiculous earnings.
DAC7 was conceived to put an initial automatic filter on the activities of private sellers (it’s not possible to check them all thoroughly, so a criterion is established to decide which ones to inspect).
hi
mario
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoIf you, as a private individual, open an eBay account and sell new items or identical items in quantity, or if you do a lot of monthly transactions, rest assured that eBay contacts you and asks for some information.
Then it blocks the account from selling.
I have an eBay account as a private individual with about 200 items in it for a total value of about 6000 euros, with Buy It Now and Make Offer.
This year I have sold little to nothing; if I get to 30 annual sales and/or 2000 euros, it will be a miracle.
On the one hand there is the private seller with many items who sells little.
On the other hand there is the private seller with few or many items who sells often.
Kind regards.
Anonymous User
·1 year agoGood morning, sorry but one thing is escaping me that maybe for you is obvious:
Does Ebay notify you if the data is transmitted to Ade in case the thresholds are exceeded, or does it transmit automatically without notifying the user?
Grateful to anyone who replies.
sika700
·1 year agoI’d say there’s no need for any notice... the regulations are clear, if you exceed the limits you already know that ebay will communicate your data to the tax authorities.
In any case, no one has ever written about receiving any notice...
Best regards.
Anonymous User
·1 year agoThanks for the reply, to be clear I am a private seller and I’m referring to 2023, anyway I called customer service and they told me exactly the opposite, they said that since no email or request to enter the tax code was received, no report is made; if, instead, they report exceeding the thresholds and the resulting report, you receive a notice by email or a request to enter the tax code, since it seemed strange to me I asked the question here, I’m a bit disoriented....
technopartsbay
·1 year agoDon’t worry: if you made sales in 2023, they already have your tax code (because you provided it three years ago, together with your IBAN, when eBay asked for it to deposit your sales proceeds into your account).
Anonymous User
·1 year agoAh, that's true, but in the tax transparency reports section I can't find any report, is that normal?
daxsisko
·1 year agotechnically, Ebay MUST provide a report of how much it will communicate to the German tax office (or delegated body....), which in turn will communicate it to the respective agencies with territorial jurisdiction depending on the country where the seller sells (or says they sell.....)
Anonymous User
·1 year agoOk thanks, but has anyone already found the file in the section transparency report?
Anonymous User
·1 year agoHere it says that notification and a copy of the transmitted data are received.
Data reporting
Under the DAC7 directive, the platform operator is required to report data through the tax authorities of the country where it is based. In the case of eBay GmbH, this is the German Federal Central Tax Office (BZSt). eBay will report the relevant information to the German tax authorities (BZSt) for all sellers residing in the EU with relevant activity for the purposes of the regulation during the reporting year. If you reside in another EU country, the German tax authorities will share your information with the tax authorities in your country of residence.
The following information will be shared with the tax authorities:
If we are required to report your data under the DAC7/PStTG directive, we will provide you with a copy of the data reported to the tax authorities in a PDF file. A CSV file containing the transactions used to calculate the total figures in the PDF will also be available. The data contained in the CSV file is shared only with you and is not reported to the tax authorities. As soon as the PDF and CSV files are available, you will receive an email and a notification on your eBay account.Both reports can be downloaded in Seller Hub or in My eBay.
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoKeep in mind that anyone who wanted to try their hand at online sales of some recently produced tech gadget would take very little time to go over the 2000 euro limit.
Ok, they made this directive, but personally I don't believe that a private individual could face consequences if they exceed the 2000 euro limit by a few hundred euros ...
Rather, I advise you to get organized: if you have items to sell of significant value, you could try asking a friend / relative / family member to let you sell your items for 2000 euros in their name.
In my view, it is not advisable to push too far with the amount of sales as a private individual (going beyond the limits) because keep in mind that the private individual "USUALLY" (at least in recent years this is how it has been for most sales) sells on those local in-person exchange platforms where this kind of directives are not even remotely taken into consideration.
Online sales platforms like eBay, for example, can be defined as PROFESSIONAL sales platforms because they are subject to a wide range of rules in common with professional sellers, such as buyer protection in the event of sales that do not go through successfully.
In conclusion, in my view the options are:
A) keep track of your sales so you don't go too far over the limits or even better, stay below or close to these limits
B) Ask family members for help to have another 2000 euros of "BREATHING ROOM"
C) Diversify your sales between eBay and other less restrictive platforms (for example, if you have items that you can sell locally in person, don't put them on eBay) and leave on eBay only those items that would be harder to sell locally through in-person exchange, trying to keep track of the remote sales with electronic payments that you make during the year.
Kind regards.
caterina60
·2 years agoGood evening everyone, so in the end EBay takes care of paying my taxes? No EBay tax return? Maybe it's better this way....
marioelegio
·2 years agoThis regulation requires platforms only to report to the tax agency private individuals who have suspicious sales volumes.
So all private individuals who exceed the indicated limits are reported to the Revenue Agency, which then has to decide whether and how to arrange any tax audits.
Tax regulations are different and have nothing to do with eBay.
bye
mario
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoSeveral years ago on eBay it was the users who had to take care of paying the fees on sales.
Then the deduction became automatic at the moment the money was received from the buyer.
Several years ago on eBay it was directly the seller who handled the payments.
Today eBay takes care of everything.
Several years ago eBay did not take care of collecting VAT.
Today, on amounts under 150 euros / pounds / dollars, eBay takes care of collecting VAT and sometimes situations arise where buyers receive double charges and refund procedures are not always guaranteed or easy to carry out.
Several years ago eBay did not take care of managing international shipping.
Today eBay optionally has a program for managing international shipping for English and American users.
Surely in the near future eBay will also take care of this aspect related to the issue of taxation on sales above certain thresholds.
The problem is that by now only a fraction of private sellers remain on eBay compared to those there were years ago, and I believe this is due to the fact that the private user has not managed over the years to keep up; the continual changes in how the site works require a spend of time, energy and adaptability that are unusual for the vast majority of ordinary users.
At the moment eBay only takes care of sending a report to the tax agency, as marioelegio wrote before me.
Kind regards.
pimp_my_cards
·2 years agoheavenwelkin unfortunately, under Italian law, if you sell continuously you are considered an entrepreneur in every respect and therefore required to get everything in order even if your earnings are tiny. This is clearly madness, given that a trader’s social security scheme currently costs about €4,200 a year just in INPS contributions, which you have to pay even if you don’t sell a pin. Even if you wanted to, how is someone supposed to pay this money if, after totaling costs and revenue, they don’t even make that much in a year? It’s no coincidence that Italy is one of the worst places to do business. So either you shut up shop or you accept the risk of having to undergo an inspection and, if that happens, so be it, you pay the fine. If this is worrying you, I recommend talking it through in time with a professional, who will be able to suggest the best thing to do. For 2023, anyway, the tax authorities won’t come knocking for at least a couple of years, as always.
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoBut I don’t make a problem out of it; if something has to be paid, I pay it, but then I make my assessments and act accordingly.
I think, like many here, we’re waiting for the situation to evolve so we can understand in practical terms what these new directives entail.
I’ve been selling on eBay since 2003 and I’ve always paid promptly the commissions on sales to eBay and PayPal, which in total were 13.5% as a private seller, and I’ve never tried to use methods to evade the commissions like so many other sellers were seen doing.
As a private seller I’ve always kept myself in check and never overdone it with sales, I’ve always stayed in the range below 3000 euros a year in sales of my own personal used items and RARELY have I put NEW items and other things up for sale.
In my opinion we’re talking about RIDICULOUS amounts (the 2500-euro-a-year limit) where a former citizenship income recipient as a single person would potentially have up to 780 euros a month available (500+280 for rent) 9360 euros tax-free not counted for ISEE purposes.
If I were to get letters from the tax agency because I went over the DAC7 limits for that year by 400-600-800-1000 euros, I’d do my best to provide all the necessary documentation, declarations and whatever else is needed, but then from the following year I’d simply stop with online sales because for amounts this low, in my view, it’s absolutely not worth getting into a tax dispute with the tax agency.
If need be, I’ll take the items I no longer need to the recycling center and that’s that.
lapez-41
·2 years agoGreat Italy
marioelegio
·2 years agoIf I were you, I’d keep quiet.
Aside from the stamps, you’d be liable to be penalized for every single sale well before reaching the DAC 7 limits.
pimp_my_cards
·2 years agoI'm sure I must have misunderstood, but I still see that this thing has alarmed a lot of people, unnecessarily in my opinion.
On eBay there will be thousands of accounts that exceed those limits. Add to that the Amazon, Vinted, Shopify, etc. accounts. How many will there be in total, 10,000-20,000? Now, does the tax police have the people and resources to check all these people thoroughly? I don't think so.
Almost certainly they'll only go after the big fish, the ones who really make the big money. These are the ones who really need to worry because while for the small fish the worst that can happen is paying a more or less hefty fine, for the big ones there's criminal charges, meaning jail.
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoPersonally, I hope so because I wouldn't want to be anxious and worried if I make 30 / 40 or 50 annual sales for an amount under 2500 / equal / or around there........
Best regards.
pimp_my_cards
·2 years agoheavenwelkin you don't have to live through this thing with anxiety. If you sell a few things and you're really unlucky, you only risk a fine, exactly like when the police stop you because you're not wearing a seat belt. Clearly in this case it's more money, but it's not like they put handcuffs on you and take you in. Relax.
marioelegio
·2 years agoProfessional sellers who operate above certain limits are not suspicious profiles for the tax authorities; if anything, they would be suspicious if they declared very low revenues.
So at first I think they will focus their checks on those private individuals who operate continuously at professional levels.
hi
mario
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoIf you tell me so, pimp_my_cards, then I'll just stay in nice, calm Relax mode ........ 😂🤣
From the account you are writing from, it does not result that you have made the seller update, so I can assume (since your feedback is private) that you are a former seller who stopped selling on eBay unless you have another account used for sales.
It's not a matter of getting handcuffs put on you, but of spending money because when the tax agency contests something, not only do you have to waste time preparing all the paperwork, various documentation, etc., you may also have to consult a professional in the field and if all goes well you will have already spent some money; then it is foreseeable that you will have to pay a fine because if there is any tax audit, you still have to pay even if you prove you are right.
- For the regularized professional, there are no problems.
- For the professional disguised as a private seller, I foresee big problems (and that seems right to me).
- For the private seller who sells figurines, coins, statuettes, I foresee problems if you exceed these limits (30 items per year) because the tax authorities will have the excuse to send you audits, precisely to find out why you exceeded the limits imposed by DAC7.
And personally I wouldn't want to find myself in this situation.
If things were to go as described (I truly hope NOT), we will end up with private users who, to avoid dealing with this kind of bureaucracy, will give up selling or will only use those marketplaces where hand-to-hand cash exchange is still allowed.
But there would also be something to discuss about CASH because between electronic payments, the digital euro, the reduction in ATMs and so on, there will be less and less paper money in circulation.
I have already expressed myself regarding the future; in the forecast I made, I described that there will be marketplaces like eBay that will take care of deducting a share (as a payment to be paid to the European state), so the commissions will be paid to eBay and the taxes to Europe before the money is actually credited to our account.
And there will no longer be stories like: yeah but these are my private and personal collectible items, etc., etc.
We are moving toward a completely automated/computerized system and in 2023 imagining that it is still possible to carry out a "creative" accounting left in the hands of the declarant really seems surreal.
eBay itself has become a centralized system where the seller/buyer has less and less room to maneuver, and I expect it to be the same in other areas as well, such as taxation.
Best regards.
sika700
·2 years agoIn any case, there are always the files of the Revenue Agency and the Collection Agency... if you get a tax audit letter, well... I'd say anxiety is only the first of the pieces.
So the time to feel at ease for “professional” private individuals is definitely over.
Best regards.
pimp_my_cards
·2 years agoIf we're talking about tax evasion, the financial police should come to your house with the relative report and any subsequent assessment notice. Everyone is involved, including those with VAT numbers, because they need to see whether the income you've made on eBay or elsewhere actually matches what you've declared on your tax return. It's an enormous amount of work, especially since they also have to check offline tax evasion, which is certainly no small thing. So yes, they'll definitely catch someone selling illegally on eBay, but reasonably it'll be, as I said, the big fish. The small guy who makes a bit of under-the-table money to top up his income, I'd say, doesn't have much to worry about; at worst, you risk a fine and that's it.
sika700
·2 years agoWe are not talking about tax evasion, but simple irregularity.
If the Revenue Agency notices, following the data provided, irregularities in your tax return, first the friendly notices are sent out, so it is up to you to prove the alleged or actual irregularity... then the talk of evasion begins.
Kind regards.
pimp_my_cards
·2 years agoNo guys, that’s not how it is. Tax irregularities are something different, like when you make a mistake entering items in your tax return and then the tax agency kindly points out that you got it wrong. But when we’re talking about off-the-books income, that is unreported income, and that is always tax evasion; the tax police have to come and determine whether and how much you evaded, and based on that you decide whether to pay or contest it. In any case, unless someone has really made a huge mess of things, you only risk a penalty, which is reduced to a fifth if you decide to pay without contesting it.
sika700
·2 years agoAn irregularity is also a deliberately omitted payment... if on your return you declare X, but the data reported shows something different, omitting the due tax is an irregularity.
So the Revenue Agency notifies you of the irregularity; if you pay, you are acknowledging the irregularity... otherwise you have to prove the opposite... if you don't pay and do nothing, the case moves forward, up to debt collection.
Call it what you want, but you don't need a whole lot of finance police....
Kind regards.
pimp_my_cards
·2 years agoFrom what I understand, but I may be wrong, the transmission of data is not automatic. In practice, eBay has to contact first the accounts that have gone over the limit, asking them to fill out a form with the personal details of the owner, which will then be sent to the Revenue Agency for any checks. If the owner does not comply, that account is restricted and it is no longer possible to sell until the data has been communicated. Then it remains to be understood whether the data already in eBay's possession will be communicated anyway even in the absence of confirmation.
marioelegio
·2 years agoYou really haven’t understood. They already have your data; if you exceed the limits ebay is obliged to report it to AdE.
bye
mario
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoEbay has already had direct relations with the tax authorities for some years now, and with the introduction of DAC7 it will be even more COMMUNICATIVE in this regard.
In my opinion the transmission of data will happen in real time and not only once the threshold of 2500 euros and/or 30 annual sales is exceeded.
Every transaction will be immediately transmitted to the tax authorities, which will always be up to date regarding our online activities.
Kind regards.
libreria_il_tempo_che_fu
·2 years agoAbout time!
For you black market sellers, the gravy train is over!
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoIf I, as a private individual, sell his collector’s motorcycle for 25,000 euros, I can’t pay the same taxes that a professional seller pays for his business.
Anyway, the usual compromise you have to accept when you can’t find a more effective solution to bring into the open those who are CLEARLY working off the books.
We’ll see how it evolves.
Best regards.
technopartsbay
·2 years agoThe thing I still haven’t understood is how the Tax Agency will “catalog” the cross-platform user.
That is, someone who sells €1,900 in that year on eBay, another €1,900 on Subito, another €1,900 on Vinted, etc. etc.
In my opinion, sooner or later they’ll ask all sellers for their tax code and then every year it will send the Tax Agency a report even if they sold for just one euro.
They should already have it anyway, since for two years now it has been required in order to add a bank account to which to pay the proceeds from sales...
daxsisko
·2 years agolet’s say that if the C.F. isn’t registered, they can get there by other means...... but the fact that they need E-commerce to communicate it to them directly evidently caused them some difficulty.........
the difference between Ebay and other sites that handle sellers’ payments is that Ebay already moved in 2021 (also because some States where it operated, unlike Italy, had already transposed the directive even before the changes) while the other sites moved this year .......
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoFrom the apocalyptic tone of this post, I might assume that you’re a VAT-registered sole proprietor who offers occasional services and stays below 5,000 euros (so as not to pay INPS)?
That means that all those businesses that WERE USED TO HAVING IT EASY, with very little risk, huge margins, and that could afford the luxury of using CREATIVE bookkeeping, will close.
Okay, but you can also pay WHAT IS DUE, without having to shout apocalypse or the end of the world.
You sell individual items, where if you buy whole lots you make money.
Think of those VAT-registered businesses that sell electronics with very low margins and with a lot of risk on their shoulders, between scams and returns.
In 12 months you officially have 1158 feedback, but from 297 users, which means that on average each user buys at least 4 individual pieces.
I assume you don’t issue many invoices, since those who buy stamps or coins presumably almost never ask for one.
Considering that the feedback that is not left is at least 1/3, all things considered your business could still survive anyway if you wanted it to.
Best regards.
heavenwelkin
·2 years agoSorry, but can a VAT number not evade taxes?
Are we sure that DAC7 only concerns private individuals and not VAT numbers?
From this article: https://www.extralberghiero.it/extralberghiero-dal-2023-col-dac7-non-ci-saranno-piu-segreti-per-il-fisco/4879/
I quote: The new rules apply to all platforms, including Airbnb, Booking and other travel portals. Not by chance, in recent months the portals have asked all account holders to enter tax code, VAT number and other information, needed precisely to complete the communications to the tax authorities.
Does anyone want to look into MORE IN DETAIL what user slovacchia78 wrote??
My question is this: Is eBay OBLIGED to transmit to the tax authorities all transactions of a professional account with VAT number?
Yes / No, if yes, since what year?
To give a practical example.
VAT number that sells items coming from activities like clearing out basements, sells on eBay for 25,000 euros; its profit is almost total since it doesn't pay anything for the items.
Being used items, he never issues an invoice, only upon any explicit request.
eBay does not send any direct communication of the account's activities to the tax agency.
The current account associated with this VAT number has small movements of 200, 300, 500 euros every so often and does not end up under scrutiny.
The professional seller at the end of the year declares sales for 5000 euros, fully aware that in the event of a tax audit there will be consequences.
The seller has been selling on eBay for years and never declares the TRUTH, and this tax audit has never arrived.
As a result, the seller pays less tax than he should.
Does my reasoning hold up, or are there mistakes? I'm asking because I don't have a VAT number, so.....
Kind regards.
marioelegio
·2 years agoIf someone with a VAT number didn’t declare traceable transactions on their account, they’d be crazy. This is the main reason many merchants are allergic to POS terminals.
The chances of being penalized for using private accounts are much lower, and that’s why the DAC7 directive was put in place.
Then everyone may be reported, but checks should be directed toward suspicious private individuals. A professional who declares sales above those limits could certainly not be suspicious.
hi
mario
actar80
·2 years agoI confirm what you've already been told: eBay is just applying a European regulation, other marketplaces are doing the same too, for example Vinted, and even sites like AirBnb and Booking where private individuals rent out rooms.
It follows that eBay is not to blame at all; on the contrary, unfortunately it is suffering the biggest losses due to many private sellers leaving, since it is the oldest platform and the reference point for vintage and used items.
This regulation has already been discussed on the forum, you'll also find a post of mine where it was talked about quite a bit.
IF you want to learn more, just type DAC07 and you'll find all the posts that talk about it; recently there is also a clarification post from an eBay staff member.
vonbalden
·2 years agoMaybe it’s time to give a bit of priority to the nation’s real interests, without limiting ourselves to acts of subservience or total subordination to every European initiative. Beating the drum of general attention so as not to run into sanctions or reprisals of any kind. Because, in my humble opinion, always being bent at a right angle does not contribute to any turning point. Neither economic, nor political, nor strategic. In the end you are treated like a lemon to be squeezed dry. Unfortunately for us, we always need to keep the whole world happy before taking an initiative. Even if it’s just blowing your nose. And this does not speak well of us.
lalibraiamatta
·1 year agoI don't exceed 2000 euros, but maybe 30 sales; now I'll take a look, I imagine it's easy to see how many sales you've made in a year. And if I have canceled sales (due to the buyer not paying), are those revenues/sales already deducted from the total?
I don't even really know what to report, where to look...
But I hope that the CGIL where they do my 730 knows or where to look
If there is a private user who has done the 730 and can give me some advice, they could contact me somehow, even from one of my listings?
marioelegio
·1 year agoJoined on 24-02-2024 and ..... 48 items sold.
daxsisko
·1 year agoin short : if you go to three different accountants, you might get three different answers....... this also because there is uncertainty around a directive that still needs to "settle in" ......
marioelegio
·2 years agoIf your activity is legal, you should have nothing to fear in the event of GDF checks.
hello
mario
technopartsbay
·2 years agoAnd, I’d also add to what Sika rightly says, that if someone has a “shop” and is a “professional” seller, it’s assumed they also have a VAT number, and so they probably don’t care much about DAC7...
It goes without saying that if these three requirements don’t match up with each other... well... paraphrasing Vasco: “It’s too late now...”
sika700
·2 years agoMaybe you haven't understood that from January 2024, ebay will report sales for the current year, so leaving ebay now is already too late... if you've made a mess of it, it's done!
Also remember that this is not ebay's decision... ebay is simply applying European regulations... so you should write to Luxembourg... not Germany!
Kind regards.