Item not collected and returned to sender
Summary: The discussion concerns an unclaimed item that was returned to the sender. Several participants chime in, but no further details or solutions to the problem are provided. The conversation includes multiple replies from various users, but none state a resolution.
Hello, I should say that this is the first time this situation has happened to me, so I’m asking for your advice.
I sold and shipped an item. After about 2 weeks the customer opens a dispute for item not received, but they are still willing to have it. From the shipment tracking I see that the package is stuck in storage at a post office in their area, I let them know and they tell me they will go check. From that point on I don’t hear from the customer anymore, assuming the package has been picked up. After almost a month the package comes back to me. The customer still hasn’t written to me about anything and the dispute is still open.
The package was sent by registered mail, so it was tracked. I have both the postal receipt and the tracking.
How should I handle this?
Thank you.
maurizio8837
·3 years agothis is the advantage of tracked shipping. If for any reason the courier/postman is unable to deliver it to the address provided and it is therefore bounced back to the reference center (from there it may end up in a black hole or return to your address) you are 100% protected by eBay. This is what eBay wrote to me regarding a package apparently refused/no one at the address. The shipment was in fact made to the address indicated by the user and you did it within the expected time frame.
Be careful, though, about a special case. I recently found out that if you use any kind of shipping that requires a signature upon receipt (e.g. registered book parcel) it is not possible to have it delivered to a fermopoint because they don't provide a signature. Usually nothing happens and they pick it up without signing because the postman knows this, but if by chance it were not successful the problem would be on the two parties involved (seller and buyer) who activated shipping to an unsuitable location, so eBay could decide arbitrarily
morgana10
·3 years agoIt is in fact stated in the Terms of Use that Fermopoints do not accept parcels with signature upon collection. The Fermopoint has a different procedure and tracking takes place via the Ticket that identifies the parcel and can be tracked at this link https://www.fermopoint.it/traccia-un-ritiro . For this reason it is very important that the seller clearly affixes the exact ticket on the parcel.
Anonymous User
·3 years agoLeave it alone, please, avoid writing on my behalf, thanks
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoWhat needed to be said has been said, no point in repeating ourselves.
Kind regards.
router-66
·3 years agoIn message 23 I wrote:
eBay wrote to me "We have reviewed and closed this dispute without a refund for the buyer."
For my own protection, I am obliged to wait for the delivery times; the item is still being held, so I have to wait for that, inevitably!
When the item should come back, if it does come back, I will decide what to do.
How can you tell that I intend to keep it?
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoGood, I'm glad I was wrong.
I'm glad to know that when you receive the package you will partially refund the buyer for the value of the item, excluding the shipping costs you incurred.
Kind regards.
morgana10
·3 years ago... router-66 and red-digital are two different IDs (but not too different...) and I won't add anything else. I'll just read the comment from the first and the reply from the second to the first), something between the two IDs.
Anonymous User
·3 years agoOver and out
marioelegio
·3 years agoIt’s not necessarily the case that this will end here.
You are a private individual and the consumer code does not apply. You must refer only to the civil code and eBay’s regulations.
In the civil code, handing over to the courier is regulated by art. 1510 paragraph 2, while art. 1378 refers only to the transport contract between the person entering into it and the carrier.
Distance selling is concluded at the seller’s premises (art. 1510 paragraph 1), and so you have already sold the item and are now only its custodian. The owner is the buyer. To free yourself from the obligation of custody, you must withdraw (art. 1771 paragraph 2), giving the owner a reasonable amount of time to collect the goods. Once that deadline has passed, you may dispose of the goods, but you cannot acquire ownership of them.
Consumer associations answer based on the questions they are asked; they cannot be considered infallible.
hi
mario
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoIt was already clear by message 23 that your intention was to keep the item and the money.
For eBay the matter is closed, even if the buyer could contact eBay support and you might receive a message from an eBay agent asking you to send a partial refund to the buyer.
The message that the eBay agent can send you is not binding anyway, and at your discretion you can accept and/or decline eBay's "suggestion".
Kind regards.
Anonymous User
·3 years agoIn any case, I am present on the eBay platform and everything eBay tells me is law to me!
As for feedback, what matters is not relevant to the behavior of a seller or a buyer; what matters is the behavior itself!
morgana10
·3 years agoeBay does not make the laws but regulates its platform in addition to eBay there is the law (which does not admit ignorance).
Anonymous User
·3 years agoI don't think I'm being dishonest. A purchase is a contract and if I don't ship, eBay refunds the buyer; if the buyer doesn't arrange pickup within 7 days, they essentially abandon the purchase and lose all rights to it.
Is it wrong not to ship an item, while it's fine not to pick it up and leave the seller with the shipping costs? Help me understand, because the scales aren't balanced!
morgana10
·3 years agoI don't think I called you dishonest, but rather answered one of your questions. In fact, you are no longer the owner of the item as long as you don't refund it (even partially, deducting the documented shipping costs). Then do as you please... you asked and you were answered. Period.
Regards
Anonymous User
·3 years agoIn virtue of the necessary communication with the buyer, at the moment when he refuses to collect the shipment, by his explicit will, the item becomes the property of no one and if it were to be returned to the sender, the sender regains ownership of it.
So if the user does not arrange for collection, they waive any right to the purchase made.
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoI noticed that recently you left a negative feedback that you could have avoided by returning the item at the seller's expense.
To have “only” 7 feedbacks, I see that you're not missing out on anything.
You've managed to get the negative feedback removed and I'm glad.
We don't know whether the buyer is a single person with problems moving around independently or someone who likes to waste time and money; the fact is that, in my opinion, the best strategy over the long haul is to put yourself at the customer's service because on eBay it's easy to fall below performance.
But that's another story....
Kind regards.
morgana10
·3 years agoThat doesn’t seem to work like that to me. In the dispute within the platform, eBay sides with you and that’s right, but in fact the item has been paid for and remains the property of the buyer, who can decide to have it sent back by paying the additional shipping or appeal to a chargeback (they have a year to do so) if they paid by credit card, as usually happens on eBay. Usually you don’t know if or when this will happen, you will only receive communication from eBay that the card issuer has ruled in the buyer’s favor; as a result, eBay will charge you (in this case) the amount without being able to intervene, and eBay can do nothing about the decisions made by the card issuer following the chargeback. So what should be done in these cases?
My advice in online sales is to always stay within the bounds of fairness and transparency (in compliance with the rules for distance selling), because in fact if you put the item back up for sale (but even if you don’t) he will always be able to claim the item as his since he paid for it, and even if it was not delivered (or collected) you are merely its custodian.
Regards
morgana10
·3 years agoWhat you say can only apply in the case where you can document that on the shipping receipt you CROSSED OUT the optional box requesting ABANDONMENT of the parcel in case it is not delivered (where present, as in Poste Italiane delivery). Usually this is done for small amounts and to avoid paying return shipping costs (which in any case are charged only in rare and specific cases). So in that case both parties lose the parcel and whatever is contained in it. But if, as you say, you are waiting for the parcel to be returned, then that is not your case.
Anonymous User
·3 years agoAbsolutely yes.
Because it opens up a different scenario from the one highlighted so far and, among other things, in line with the sales contracts of the Civil Code, more precisely art. 1378
"Art. 1378 of the Civil Code, in regulating precise specification (as was already undisputed) establishes that when it comes to things that must be transported from one place to another, identification also takes place through delivery to the carrier or freight forwarder."
Anonymous User
·3 years agoAmong other things, I repeat, eBay told me explicitly that I am not required to refund, since (this is my view) at the moment the user does not pick it up by express choice, he in fact abandons it!
Anonymous User
·3 years agoIt is important instead to comply with the regulations and the Consumer Code
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoHowever, if the buyer decides to start a chargeback request with their bank, this would bypass all the parties involved in this sale.
In that case, keep us updated and let us know if:
- the buyer accepts ebay's decision and decides to pick up the package
- the buyer accepts ebay's decision and decides to give up the item.
- the buyer decides not to pick up the item and to continue the dispute by following another procedure.
Kind regards.
Anonymous User
·3 years agoeBay wrote to me "We have reviewed and closed this dispute without a refund for the buyer."
For my own protection, I am required to wait for the delivery times; the item is still in storage, so I have to wait for that, for sure!
At the moment the item were to come back, if it does indeed come back, I will decide what to do.
I contacted the Consumers' Association about it.... I don't go by the letter of the judgments of users in a community; it's clear that they are important suggestions, but from a legal point of view they have no validity!
actar80
·3 years agoIt's obvious that you'll have to wait until you get possession of the item back. If you have contacted a consumer association, it may be able to give you more precise legal references.
If eBay told you that you are not required to refund it, it could be as you say, that at the moment the user refuses to pick up the shipment it is as if he had abandoned it of his own express will. But it's better that you ask the consumer association for its opinion, it's always better from a legal point of view, even if you contact support it's not necessarily the case that everyone is good and/or knowledgeable in legal matters.
Anonymous User
·3 years agoI hope it can be helpful to the other sellers.
I renew my thanks to the Community for the invaluable help
Anonymous User
·3 years agoGood morning, I wanted to give the Community the latest details of the Dispute opened by the buyer, which I highlighted earlier, since I used this tool to better understand how to handle things, I think it’s only right to end on a high note!
This morning I called Customer Service, pointing out among other things that the user doesn’t have a doorbell, the mailbox is anonymous, and the house number is removable and written on a sheet of paper in pen, thanks to some photos I managed to have them send me by email, all elements that, besides highlighting the difficulty of delivery for the courier, also show the recipient’s fault.
Soon after eBay tells me the following :
We have reviewed and closed this dispute without a refund for the buyer.
The dispute will have no effect on your seller performance.
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoGood morning labachecadipino
Good, I'm glad, so far things have gone as expected.
Now the buyer could contact eBay and eBay could contact you to ask you to refund the buyer for the part relating to the item's cost excluding shipping.
Or the buyer could open a PayPal dispute (if they paid with PayPal) or with their bank if they paid with a credit card to request a refund,
Here the possibilities can be different.
You can choose to contact the buyer directly yourself to ask how to arrange the refund, or you can wait to see what happens in the meantime.
Nothing might happen and you could keep the item and the money, but besides not being right, that isn't legally allowed either.
Then it's up to you.
Kind regards.
actar80
·3 years agoThat's good 👍👍
Anonymous User
·3 years agoAbsolutely yes!
Thanks actar80
actar80
·3 years agoYou're welcome...Hi
Anonymous User
·3 years agoI followed the advice and called eBay back, it really leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, such a surreal situation!
Thanks a lot for the suggestions, which in a situation like this are really reassuring!
Anonymous User
·3 years agoLet me correct myself, I tried to book a second attempt on Tuesday too... I'm sure I had availability for it and it's documented in the messages
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoObviously, regarding the negative feedback that was left for you, that too can be removed automatically and/or later upon your request after the complaint process has been concluded.
Kind regards.
Anonymous User
·3 years agoWhen I say outside the norm, I mean this:
"Good morning, when the SDA courier delivers the item to me I will close the request and complaint with eBay support.
I spoke with my mechanic and he will return my Citroen C1 on April 13, 2023, and I am not able to pick up the item at the post office
kind regards"
Aside from the fact that the type of car is irrelevant or whether it’s in for repairs..... the post office is 15 minutes on foot from the buyer and easy to reach (as shown on Google Maps) and about 2/3 minutes by car....
The way of communicating is very strange, with arguments that make no logical sense... moreover he wants and demands that it be delivered to his door.... it's a truly absurd thing, almost enough to make your blood boil!
Anonymous User
·3 years agoAs for the apologies, to those who say I should have asked for them, I tried to book a second attempt, but she demanded delivery on Saturday because Monday would have been too late. Do you realize what it means to have 100-plus messages throughout the whole day with a calm and accommodating tone?
What more should I have done?
actar80
·3 years agoI would have already blocked him 😂...by the way, after this whole thing is over, take care of it. I'm attaching the link for managing buyers.
https://www.ebay.it/help/selling/resolving-buyer-issues/bloccare-un-acquirente-su-ebay?id=4082
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoAs other users also wrote during the dispute, you should contact eBay directly to make sure the case is handled by a human operator rather than by the automated system.
If you've done everything you could do, all that's left is to report the buyer to eBay, maybe through the call / chat with support, and then put him on the black list.
Either way, there is still a bitter taste in your mouth for the loss of time / money and for the fact that you will have to refund the buyer for the part concerning the cost of the item.
I see the buyer has few feedback, he probably hasn't understood how eBay works or how distance selling works in general, so if he behaves as you described, he will soon be removed from the platform.
Best regards.
actar80
·3 years agoAnonymous User
·3 years agoGood evening, same exact problem!
I sell an item, ship with Poste Delivery Business, and the tracking shows twice "delivery failed because recipient absent" and the item goes into storage at the post office.
The user, after the second delivery attempt, opened an Item Not Received claim, but the item is shown as available for pickup at the post office, which refuses to collect it and demands delivery to the home address.
He leaves negative feedback, I contact eBay Customer Service who confirms that I am in the right for the purposes of resolving the dispute, especially given the tracking evidence.
I received a huge number of messages and, from the content of the messages themselves, behavior and language emerge that are outside any possible "normality".
How should I behave?
actar80
·3 years agoGood evening, if you sent it to the buyer's address that appears on eBay, you have fulfilled your duties.
If the buyer does not want to collect the shipment held at the post office, that's their problem and it seems almost like a whim to me, especially since they can authorize someone else through the receipt that the courier will have left in the mailbox after the 2 unsuccessful attempts.
For the feedback, you can ask eBay support to remove it.
The dispute should be closed in your favor, but as advice, contact support again by phone or chat to emphasize that the customer refuses to pick up the parcel held there and what to do if the parcel is sent back. Point out the messages between you and the customer, eBay agents can read them. In short, be proactive in the complaint phase.
For your last sentence ....."I received a myriad of messages and from the content of the messages themselves there emerges behavior and expressions outside of any possible "normality". .... if I understood correctly, you received insults (correct me if I'm wrong), if so, report this to eBay agents as well.
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoGiven that under the current rules, the fault is on your side.
I read the feedback and the buyer says that Poste never delivered anything to him, which could be true because often couriers make delivery attempts show up that never actually happened.
It’s clear that the buyer got stubborn because Poste probably never rang / called him, and the seller, knowing full well what he was doing, turned a deaf ear despite the many messages (I read 100 messages).
Before getting stubborn himself and putting up a wall, did the seller consider that when the package is returned to the sender the buyer is entitled to receive a refund for the item minus the shipping costs?
How does the seller assess / quantify this missed sale in terms of time and money?
Sometimes you have to go beyond the rules and the various mechanisms and bureaucracy; maybe you could have gotten by with a “sorry for the inconvenience, we will file a complaint with the post office, please accept our apologies” or something similar, which might have sorted the situation out.
Kind regards.
marioelegio
·4 years agoAfter about a month, the eBay dispute should be closed.
Anyway, if they ask you, provide proof of attempted delivery and the parcel tracking.
Inform the customer and ask him what you should do.
The item has been paid for and therefore belongs to him. He can choose whether to ask you for a new shipment (at his expense) or you can offer to buy it back from him (not refund it) at a price equal to the sale price only (since he did not collect it, he takes the loss on the shipping costs).
hi
mario
macq1984
·1 year agoThe same thing happened to me, with some variations!
with an item sent to Denmark,
the customer messages me, then opens a dispute, shortly after, eBay quite rightly, even though I had tracking and everything, takes away the money spent by the poor guy, after about ten days the envelope comes back to me, I must have written the address wrong
no way, the address is correct even the commas,! So 10€ gone, goodbye