Blatant scam by a clever buyer
Good morning to everyone in the community!
I’m an eBay seller with hundreds of sales, 100% feedback, and never a complaint or a return or anything else.
Recently I sold a TV (obviously vintage, CRT) new and sealed. Closed in its original packaging. I always specify in the description that the TV will be sent sealed (and therefore untested) unless the buyer expressly asks me to open it and test it. After the purchase I send a message via eBay messaging confirming the same thing, namely that the product will be shipped SEALED. If desired, I can test it and open it. Without confirmation from the buyer though, it will be shipped sealed, in its never-opened packaging as described.
The TV arrives correctly, and I always leave a phone number as well. The buyer tells me that the TV has arrived. I ask for confirmation that everything is okay and he confirms yes, everything is fine. Two days later (surely after messing around with menus he shouldn’t have touched), he renders the TV unusable and now opens a dispute as item not as described. It’s obvious he’s trying to pull a fast one and wants a refund. I replied to the dispute with screenshots of everything, including confirmation (also from the number registered on eBay and given to the courier) of receipt and that everything is okay. Courier waybill with details, weight, etc. delivered to him by name, and all the eBay messages.
What else could I do? Is it possible these scam artists are still out there?
musiquity
OP3 years agoSorry, it's me again, but I was logged in with my brother's account for another order he placed
actar80
·3 years agoYes, I had understood that you were from another account... anyway, yes, the buyer contradicted himself. Update the situation when you have news. Have a good evening.
umbertocellist
·3 years agoSorry, it’s me again, but I was logged in with my brother’s account for another order he made 🙂
musiquity
OP3 years agoOf course! I’ll keep you updated.
Absolutely, I certainly’m not going to put up with things like that from buyers. In fact, I’ll probably go to the postal police in a few days to file a complaint against this rather careless gentleman
musiquity
OP3 years agonot at all. I agree, I have won arguments, seller friends have won arguments. It is absolutely not true that banks or eBay automatically side with buyers 🙂
tokitasojin
·3 years agoCan I ask you specifically what disputes you won? 🙂
For non-compliance of the article or something else?
musiquity
OP3 years agosure. One was a non-compliant item (clearly false since it claimed it wasn’t working properly even though it had been tested and its functionality confirmed). In the second case, the items never arrived. Picked up by others (he said). Filed a complaint. Everything was quickly resolved
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoGood morning musiquity
The general tendency on the forum (from lived experience) is not to give false hope to those who choose not to comply with the buyer's requests but then prefer to leave the decision to eBay.
In general, disputes are won by buyers if they follow the procedure correctly.
In the case of low-value items, sometimes eBay prefers to save face and cake, safeguarding both parties (this happened to me personally for amounts under 20 euros).
But if we're talking about significant amounts, eBay is unlikely to patch things up.
The general advice I feel I can give is to assess the situation carefully as a whole and try to get out of it with the least possible damage.
In any case, we remain waiting to be proved wrong by the facts.
As an eBay seller, I can't help but be pleased when a seller comes out on top and manages to win a dispute.
Kind regards.
marioelegio
·3 years agoUnfortunately the listing for the sold item isn’t visible, so it’s not easy to make any guesses about what eBay’s decisions will be.
The problem could be the definition of new sealed.
This definition obviously implies perfect functioning, a functioning that cannot be lost (irreversibly) with a simple (definitely having fiddled around with menus he shouldn’t have touched).
If you sell an item that has not been tested and you do not ensure or guarantee its operation, the definition cannot be new.
I see that as a private seller you do not accept returns, but if the dispute is for an item not as described and if eBay rules in the buyer’s favor, there will be very little you can do.
Trying to talk to eBay may give you a slightly better chance, but it may not be enough.
bye
mario
musiquity
OP3 years agoClearly I’m talking about a chargeback, which is what the buyer did. A dispute with the credit institution over a non-compliant item. If it had gone through eBay, they would have closed it immediately in my favor without discussion. It’s not like 2-3-5 years ago anymore, when buyers could do anything
actar80
·3 years agoSince you described the item well, indicating that it is untested and sealed, there can be no non-conformity. Contact support by phone and explain everything in detail. Forget the automated procedures, which practically evaluate nothing.
In a case like this, if eBay gives the buyer the right, it’s as if they were saying, don’t sell with us because the buyer is always right even when they are clearly wrong!
musiquity
OP3 years agoClearly the listing states in plain terms that the item will be provided in its sealed packaging (exactly like the post-sale eBay message I’m attaching here) and that it is the buyer who must ask for it to be tested and opened. I’m also writing to eBay, of course, but in the meantime I’ve completed the appeal process for the dispute with photos, details, courier proof, and proof of the confirmation that he tested the TV correctly
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoGood morning musiquity
On a television you have for sale at 599 euros you wrote:
I quote: Shipping available (I do not take any responsibility for possible damage caused by the courier) or pickup in Milan. It will be tested before being shipped, NO RESPONSIBILITY IS ACCEPTED IF THE MONITOR ARRIVES NOT WORKING AND NO RETURNS OR REFUNDS ARE ACCEPTED
Unfortunately though, during a dispute these statements are absolutely not taken into consideration.
You do well to write them because maybe you’ll run into someone who isn’t familiar with eBay, PayPal or chargeback procedures, but in general they do not protect you when the buyer decides to open a dispute.
Making a video proof of the item working that “certifies” its operation before shipping loses value when the item is then handed over to the courier and if it arrives broken to the buyer, they have the right to ask for a refund for an item not conforming to the description.
Anyway, let us know how this dispute develops.
Kind regards.
actar80
·3 years agoI meant not tested in the listing description; anyway, it seems to me that you have scrupulously kept everything, also keep the emails that arrive at the address linked to your account, since messages on eBay disappear after 2 or more months (I don’t remember), but the email stays with you.
Keep us updated on how the matter develops, it’s interesting to understand whether there is at least some minimal protection for sellers.
Thanks and have a good evening.
umbertocellist
·3 years agoDefinitely yes!
Ah, I’m meticulous to say the least. I’m sure the buyer is more than dishonest, a sly little idiot... I mean, obviously he messed things up by fiddling with a menu he shouldn’t have touched and caused damage. His idea is basically, "okay, fine, I’ll open a chargeback and say it isn’t as described because after 2 days it no longer works." He’s simply a bit dumb, let’s say, because he confirmed to me that he had received it and that everything was fine in my voice message "all good? Is the TV working perfectly?" From the number, obviously recorded on eBay and on the delivery note. I sent everything, including photos of the delivery note, the messages on eBay and so on. I replied հենց the same day with the full description and the meticulous details. Now I’m waiting and we’ll see, but it wouldn’t be the first one I’ve won, I repeat. I think it takes a good month, in my opinion
tokitasojin
·3 years agoHello, unfortunately I have to tell you about my experience...
Long ago I had sold a used Transformers robot.
Several days after delivery, the buyer opens a dispute without notice and claims to have received a used item rather than a new one...
Obviously absurd reasoning since I sold a used item; expecting it to arrive new seems a bit unrealistic to me...
Despite me continuously providing Ebay with proof of the buyer's bad faith, in the end I was forced to issue a full refund.
This experience taught me that the buyer can always ask for a refund even without any valid reason.
Completely pointless to contact support or anything else, you just waste time.
If the buyer wins the dispute with Ebay's intervention, the selling fees will not be returned to you.
If instead you refund before Ebay's review of the dispute due to no agreement between the two parties, they return the various fees to you.
It's pointless to hope to win the dispute, for Ebay the buyer is always right!
In the online market this kind of problem will always exist, who would ever buy on the internet if there weren't total protection?
...we sellers accept this risk the moment we publish the listings...
Have a good day! 🙂
musiquity
OP3 years agobut that's not true, I remember very well I handled a dispute (which isn't really a dispute, but he went after the credit institution, so the money isn't being taken away from me from anywhere) for my brother and I won it with all the evidence in the case. Heaven forbid we accept anyone else's risks. Mine is just an informational note, to be careful, that's all. If I were to accept the return, incidentally, he has to return it to me exactly as sold, that is, sealed 🙂
tokitasojin
·3 years agoUnfortunately, as far as I know, if the buyer opens a dispute for ''ITEM NOT AS DESCRIBED'' they automatically win and always get a refund.
In the case of a return, you’ll pay all the costs yourself and if you don’t cooperate within the expected time, Ebay leaves the item completely free to the buyer.
...to make it clearer how Ebay ALWAYS protects buyers, let me tell you about some situations that are very often found on the platform...
In the extreme case where the buyer returns an empty package or something else, for Ebay the buyer would always be right, and any videos of the seller opening the package would be ignored!
Better to be friendly with buyers as much as possible, and be ready to pay return shipping promptly.
A bit unfair for sellers but there’s not much to be done... 😞