Chargeback scam
Summary: The discussion titled 'TRUFFA CHARGEBACK' includes multiple interactions among several participants, although the specific content of the conversations is not detailed. There is an ongoing exchange between the users blacksouther, heavenwelkin, and others over a significant period of time, but it is unclear what topics were discussed. No additional information is provided about the responses or conclusions of the exchange.
Hello everyone,
I’m going to tell you what many of you already know about, namely the CHARGEBACK scam
I’ll try to be as thorough as possible
I put the item up for sale (a camera accessory)
The item was purchased on 6/12/2022 and paid for regularly.
I carefully pack it and arrange pickup on 18/12/2022 through the website
Parcelscout.com with SDA, since the DHL courier had no pickups available that week.
The courier misses the pickup and I arrange a new pickup with the same courier
This pickup is missed too, presumably due to the congestion of shipments during Christmas week: I apologize to the customer for the inconvenience, promising a new shipment on December 27 for express delivery on the 28th, the date requested by the customer.
The new shipment is handed over to GLS: pickup is successful and the package is delivered regularly on 28/12
On 10/01/23 the recipient opens a claim for item not delivered
I promptly attach proof of shipment and the GLS tracking code with which it arrived.
The recipient immediately closes the claim for item not delivered and opens one for
refund, because according to him he received the package damaged, as well as the item. First I raise doubts about his claim and then, sorry about what happened, I offer a partial refund, which is refused.
The recipient then converts the claim from refund to return, which I refuse,
stating the reasons with documentary evidence and national regulations.
Finally, on 14/01/2023 the recipient opens a payment dispute and asks for a
chargeback, a request that I reject with this communication for the following reasons
On the delivery note signed upon receipt by the courier and on the delivery note signed by the recipient, there is
no wording “ACCEPTED WITH RESERVATION” or “RESERVATION
UPON OPENING”. This unquestionably shows that the package was delivered
intact into the hands of the courier and was delivered intact to the recipient.
– If the package had really been damaged, the sender was obliged to report it
within 8 days of delivery (from December 28 to January 5) and not on January 10 (13
days later and therefore outside the legal deadline). The return and damage report are therefore
outside the deadlines and transport conditions as clearly stated in the Civil
Code Art. 1698.
According to Articles 60-65 of the Consumer Code, which implement Articles 17-22 of
Directive 2011/83/EU, the person responsible for damage to the product is
also the professional seller (A CATEGORY TO WHICH I DO NOT BELONG ANYWAY), until the buyer actually takes possession of the goods.
A month goes by, I provide documentary evidence, photos and legal articles, and Ebay closes the chargeback in the buyer’s favor.
I call support, which responds with the standard line, “but did you try to reach an agreement with the buyer?” (sure, ask the chicken thief to give me my money back... why didn’t I think of that earlier?) then admitting that this method is wildly overused (wake up, will you?).
Finally they disclaim all responsibility, sending everything back to the banking network.
I appeal and it is immediately closed with “After reviewing the appeal, we determined that this payment dispute is not covered by seller protections” (Really? Do we even have any?).
For good measure, I also write to the Adyen network which, like a good “round shoulder,” kicks the ball back into the website/merchant’s court (you’re Dutch but you’ve learned the Italian way well) with an automated email.
Let’s sum up
- In the event of a chargeback, Ebay only acts as a “paper-passer” with the bank institution/payment network (it’s not clear here whether it’s the customer’s bank or the Adyen network, which has replaced Paypal)
- There is no way to interact directly and appeal to the bank institution/payment network.
My solution was to remove the mandate from my bank in favor of Ebay before the debit (cost of the item + shipping + 6 euros commission).
I’m waiting for them to send me the invoices, reminders, debt collection notices: they won’t get a cent from me, they can keep the account.
This is yet another demonstration that Ebay absolutely does not protect honest, long-time sellers, but rather silently backs scams by these clowns and two-bit thieves
mediza-products
·2 years agoA similar thing happened to me, meaning it’s always a scam method, but this one is a little different.
I’ll tell you about my situation: I’ve been a seller since 2017 and I only sell things related to the photography sector, so cameras, flashes, lenses, etc. I have 100% positive feedback with almost 500 items sold.
On 10/07/2024 I receive an order for a DJI mini 2 from a buyer (with 0 feedback who then signed up on eBay on 14/06/2024), I pack the parcel, take photos of the contents and the weight, and ship it with UPS with the shipment insured.
The parcel is delivered on 19/07/2024, I receive a dispute for an empty package, specifically the drone box was there but the drone and the remote controller were missing. I ask the buyer to send me photos of the package so I can compare them with the ones I took and file a claim with UPS. The buyer tells me that unfortunately he had to throw it away. I tell him that without that UPS won’t reimburse me, and the only thing the buyer sends me is a photo of the empty drone box.
I send eBay all the photos of the package and the contents, and also the UPS delivery receipt, which also shows the weight matching mine.
When the time comes to turn the dispute into an eBay claim, I open it myself, explaining to eBay that the buyer claims to have found the package empty but is sending me no proof. I send all my photos and evidence.
The next day I get an email from eBay telling me they closed the case in the buyer’s favor because he provided a police report for having received an empty package. I ask eBay to send me a copy of the report so I can send it to UPS and get reimbursed by them; they tell me to try to get it from the buyer.
I didn’t let them take the money from the account, and as you said, they can even keep the account, but I’m thinking of filing a complaint anyway through my lawyer, even if it will cost me money.
Conclusion: eBay is losing a ton of honest sellers and gaining a ton of fraudulent buyers. If you’re a seller, you can provide 3000 thousand pieces of evidence, they’ll side with the buyer because, as in this case, when a buyer files a report with the police, he is basically filing a report against eBay and so, to wash their hands of it, they side with him, but they take your money. Unfortunately eBay is absolutely not a safe place to sell, it’s fine for buying but not for selling, and it’s losing a lot of honest sellers because unfortunately these scams are growing exponentially given how easy it is to scam people. These guys open 30 accounts and if one gets banned they use another one and so on.
elet803
·2 years agoI recently had a bad experience with a Chinese seller. My impression is that e bay protects sellers, but hardly protects buyers at all.
I had opened the return as soon as I realized the product was counterfeit, but by mistake I closed it, because reading their rules, they gave as the deadline a date when I knew the item still would not have arrived, so I closed it early, thinking I could reopen it when the item was received, which arrived 12 days after the date stated by ebay, just in time on the very last day to be able to file a claim.
I sent it back right away to get a refund, paying €60 for shipping myself, and asking the seller for a refund, as well as the amount paid, also the shipping costs.
I was refunded the money I paid for the item, but not the money, which was important too, spent on shipping.
There was nothing more to be done, ebay washed its hands of it and did nothing more to help me.
For me it is no longer a reliable site!
cizeta1964
·2 years agoIt’s not eBay that’s unreliable, it’s you who don’t know its rules:
1) The days to open a dispute for an item not as described through eBay are 30 from the actual arrival of the item, 180 with PayPal
2) Before shipping, you should have asked eBay to intervene, via the appropriate link, which would have forced the seller to advance the shipping costs to you, otherwise they would have lost both money and the item.
As you can see, buyers on eBay are very (very) well protected; it’s enough to know its rules, as with any marketplace after all, and in general whenever you spend money.
marioelegio
·2 years agoRather, how did it occur to you to open a return procedure before receiving the item.
Then when you went to close it, it was clearly stated that by closing it you would then not have been able to open any others on eBay.
If you had followed eBay's procedures with normal attention, you wouldn't have had these problems. The seller would have had to take on the return costs and you would have been fully refunded.
eBay is a reliable site, but the users who use it are not always reliable.
hi
mario
grandiofferte_limitate
·3 years agoGood morning,
it seems that this kind of scam involving the "unauthorized transaction" and therefore chargeback against the seller is spreading on ebay.
The exact same thing happened to me too; in fact, I sold several products to multiple customers (I think it was the same scammer) only to end up with 10-15 disputes over unauthorized transactions (totaling about €1700) even though I had sent everything to the customer and also received positive feedback! the customers even confirmed pickup! madness.
in all this, the customers all won the disputes, I received an account ban (a 15-year-old account with 223 always-positive feedback), and now I find myself having to pay ridiculous amounts even though the products (digital cards) were all delivered correctly and picked up!.
Honestly, I don't know whether to report it, advise me because the amounts are very high.
Honestly, I won't sell anything on ebay anymore and watch out guys, there are people who buy everything from your store in a compulsive way using multiple accounts, the problem is that then they will certainly ask you for a chargeback
marioelegio
·3 years agoI think in your case there are some basic problems that exposed you to this bad actor.
There are some buyers (not very honest) who go looking for these seller accounts that can’t defend themselves and that sometimes can’t even report the fraud.
sorry,
bye
mario
grandiofferte_limitate
·3 years agoHi, I agree with you that there is no protection at all and I certainly didn’t think authorization was needed to sell that type of product; in any case the platform should control what sellers are selling. I was scammed and as a victim I have no intention of paying thousands of euros for blatant scams, the account is there, the messages are visible to everyone, those people who scammed me sent delivery feedback and also feedback on the account. On top of that, in the days after the disputes, eBay also flagged all those accounts as suspicious, shutting them down and sending me an email asking me not to reply anymore to all the accounts that had basically made purchases.
All of this and I lost ALL the disputes (thousands of euros). Honestly, I’m going to report everything to protect myself, obviously against unknown persons, but at least I’ll have something in writing; I’m convinced the platform can’t wash its hands of any responsibility and it also can’t bring people to their knees because it doesn’t carry out checks and lets these scams happen
ora_vendo_tutto
·11 months agohello,
it's been a while but I hope I can get an answer to my question.
To keep it brief, also having proof of delivery, could the dispute opened by the scammer with a chargeback be closed in favor of the seller?
Thanks
marioelegio
·11 months agoIf the claim is for item not received, it's best to get a POD so you can respond.
https://support-ebay.packlink.com/hc/it/articles/208357969-Come-posso-ottenere-la-prova-di-consegna-POD
It's usually accepted. What's important is that the address is identical to the one provided by ebay, without even the slightest truncation.
hi
mario
heavenwelkin
·11 months agoIf we're talking about a dispute that was communicated to you by ebay regarding a chargeback opened by the buyer, you as the seller cannot directly deal with the buyer's credit institution, but ebay will do it for you.
If the buyer opened a chargeback for unauthorized payment (they deny having made that payment), the situation definitely gets more complicated.
You provide all the evidence, then ebay will send it to the bank.
It's the buyer's bank that has the final say.
If the bank accepts the evidence that ebay provides them, then you win the dispute.
If the bank does not accept the evidence provided by ebay, there are these two possibilities:
- ebay, after the verdict from the buyer's bank, takes the money from your account.
- ebay, after the bank's verdict, steps in to protect you and does not take the money from your account.
Good luck.
beppe_873
·9 months agoI was scammed with the ChargeBack technique by keluc-5859 (Kevin Luciano from Siano-SALERNO).
He bought an item and immediately wrote that it didn’t work. Impossible, considering the package I made and for which I have both photos and video. The item was in its original box with the foam padding and then placed in another box with paper around it. The fact is that I immediately asked for proof that the item didn’t work and he never replied. Instead, I see the payment blocked and the dispute filed by the credit institution.
after more than a month I receive this message:
A decision has been made on the dispute submitted by keluc-5859. The dispute was resolved in favor of the buyer.
The amount you owe eBay is therefore EUR 272,00. We will recover this amount from your account.
Meanwhile the scammer had sent me back a package containing a bottle of body oil and not the item purchased.
Needless to say, I will file a proper complaint for the fraud. The problem remains eBay, which wants the money. On top of the damage, the insult.
eBay protects the buyer too much and the seller too little. I will follow the procedure for reporting the dishonest buyer, but I am absolutely sure it will not have a positive outcome.
I’ll try with the lawyers at AltroConsumo.
heavenwelkin
·9 months agoUnfortunately, distance selling is anything but easy, quick, and safe, just as the ad in 2024 claimed.
eBay does not directly manage payments made with credit cards and their derivatives, so it is subject to external disputes, and when that happens, things turn bad for the seller in 99% of cases.
You did everything you could do, I’m sorry for the inconvenience.
Best regards
gianl-zan
·8 months agoI find myself in the situation of having shipped a perfectly working item, the buyer opens a dispute for a non-working item, but then contradicts himself by also admitting that he tampered with the item.
I won the dispute but now he has opened a dispute with his payment method. I have already disputed this by sending the explanation that ebay did not hold us responsible and that the item is not covered by the ebay buyer protection.
I’m fighting with ebay because I have funds blocked even when they themselves cleared us.
I will most likely close all cards connected to ebay.
Do you have any experience with this?
It’s become hard to sell properly with these people around
blacksouther
OP3 years agoUpdate
While chatting with Ebay (I have a copy that remains until the end of the conversation), I found out that the case was handled in this way:
- buyer opens a dispute for item not as described
- opens one in parallel with Paypal (an action that violates Ebay's rules and Ebay closes it for him)
- Paypal closes in favor of the buyer and asks Ebay for the refund
- Ebay asks me for the refund
I also find out that the buyer attached proof of shipment to return the item: the tracking code refers to a shipment made on February 9 from Milan to Luxembourg, returned to sender because the recipient is unknown (!?). I don't think anything will arrive to me.
I point this out to Ebay, who advises me to turn to Paypal (which is bizarre since I don't appear directly)
Anyway, I contact Paypal, which of course denies by email being involved, since:
1) the chargeback was carried out through the buyer's bank
2) I don't appear in the transaction, only Ebay and Paypal
Halfway between "alla fiera dell'est" and "the three-card monte", Ebay starts requesting payment of the amount they say I owe them, but the attempts to debit it bounce back, and as far as I'm concerned it is impossible to reach the originating bank and file a complaint against them.
At this point I think it is necessary to take everything to the postal police and settle the matter.
I hope I am still active as a user to keep you updated on how this messy affair goes. I imagine it will take a very long time
magmion
·3 years agoPay as soon as possible, Ebay relies on German banks, everything works better there, for a lawyer from Germany (...but then they also rely on Italian lawyers...) it won't be difficult to recover the debt.
As I said before, I received many letters for just 10 euros.
If everyone could earn even 1 single euro at Ebay's expense, it would be a ''paradise'' for scammers and Ebay would have already failed years ago...
How many would have already organized themselves to commit countless small scams!
Before selling on Ebay, you have already accepted your responsibilities, including refunding the buyer according to the criteria set by Ebay.
You made a contract with Ebay.
Would you like it if one of your partners ran away at the first difficulty??
Don't underestimate the importance of contracts.
...have you ever wondered why in the United States companies make 30-page contracts?
Because there the contract is law!
And I'm passing this information on in your interest, we're all telling you that Ebay is serious...
...pay as soon as possible, respect the contract!!
blacksouther
OP3 years agoDon’t get me wrong, I’m not running away from anything or anyone: I want to be able to present my reasons before a body that has the authority, and not an Ebay employee or whoever else, that’s very different.
First of all I’m preparing an appeal to the ABF ( banking and financial arbitrator) and from there I’ll decide if necessary.
magmion
·3 years agoYes, it could be useful to consult other authorities before sending the payment to Ebay.
If I remember correctly, they start all debt recovery procedures after more than 2 months, so you have plenty of time to better assess the situation.
But the real problem is that in the contract that all sellers accept before selling, it is specified that we sellers must reimburse buyers according to the criteria set by Ebay...
...unfortunately, what is предусмотрено in our agreement with Ebay is to reimburse even when we are in the right, it will be difficult to get recognition from financial institutions... but there is time and it is right to try!
musiquity
·3 years agoI agree with you. I would also go ahead and file a police report. Usually things get sorted out afterward
magmion
·3 years agohi blacksouther, I really recommend that you pay the eBay debt right away, now I’ll tell you about my experience.
years ago I had a debt of about 10 euros with eBay and I made the huge mistake of taking a break from eBay without settling the small debt.
after 2 months the first debt collection letters arrived, and with all the added fees they increased the debt from 10 to over 20 euros.
considering that your amount is higher (90), the collection fees will be higher too, they’ll send you letters from lawyers both in Germany and in Italy... don’t make the same mistake I did!
also, I’m letting you know that after payment they remove the suspension due to the debt.
have a good evening
ps I also had a similar experience to yours, a buyer from Spain filed a refund request for practically non-existent damages... it was no use explaining in the dispute that the buyer was blatantly lying...
...when we decide to use eBay we have to accept the negative aspects as well as the positive ones...
blacksouther
OP3 years agoA debt collection agency can send all the letters and make all the phone calls it wants (and we don't even have to answer them): it is not a public official nor a legal body.
If someone gives in to their demands, fine, but in the end they have 2 options: to "write off" the debt they have bought, or to hand everything back to the original creditor, who then has to decide whether to back down or ultimately proceed through legal channels.
No collection agency will ever seize your car, bank account, house, or shares, which require a final judgment from a court. Don't be intimidated by their aggressiveness, they have no decision-making power.
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoThis post is proof positive that the system studied by ebay that gives trust to buyers who successfully complete a certain number of sales is not all that reliable.
As long as things are going well, fine, then when there are problems you revoke the mandate or empty the account 😎
You are publicly declaring that it is right to violate the rules you agreed to when circumstances require it (you decide what those circumstances are).
You are publicly declaring that when circumstances require it, it is right to ignore the debt collection agency because there won’t be any consequences that, in your judgment, would be criminally significant.
This post of yours is a call for not respecting the rules (for 90 euros), to put it very briefly.
Best wishes and good luck.
blacksouther
OP3 years agoI am an honest seller, and I always have been.
I have always followed the rules, since 2008: never a dispute, never a negative feedback, never a problem.
But bowing to a scam (and it is one, it is obvious), to an extortion (I am being charged back an amount for which I regularly shipped) against which I had no way to defend myself directly, yet which I would be expected to accept without even having seen the process or knowing who the other party is, no.
And all this accompanied by eBay's silence and indifference, which goes out of its way not to protect sellers even minimally, ignoring their history, their tenure, and their unquestionable honesty. "The buyer is always right, end of story." If it works for you, fine. Not for me.
If it happens, I want to be able to defend myself and present the evidence before a serious and recognized arbitration panel, and if the wrong is still found to be mine, I will accept the outcome.
"For 90 euros" is what the petty thieves and eBay are counting on: today it's 10, tomorrow 40, the day after 50. And meanwhile they pocket it and get away with it.
I do not want to accept that.
P.S. at most, if you go to court after having dealt with a collection agency, it is a civil action and not a criminal one. It's very different.
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoYou are "FREE" to decide which "INJUSTICES" you want or do not want to submit to.
But if you look around you have to admit that you would be spoiled for choice when it comes to "INJUSTICES" and "CRUSADES" to carry on, where by CONTRACT you have to submit to stricter constraints with the impossibility of withdrawing without losing essential services for a person such as water, electricity, gas.
Kind regards.
blacksouther
OP3 years agoLet's try not to go off topic and not to indulge in whataboutism.
Here the issue is " Ebay demands a credit because the banking network decided unilaterally ( will it really be so?) without having seen the process"
Well, let's look at the matter to the end
sika700
·3 years agoYou forgot the THIRD option: the out-of-court enforcement procedure!
It’s up to you to figure out what that means...
Best regards.
blacksouther
OP3 years agoTranslated: payment is requested through a law firm and they are warned of the intention to proceed legally. END
It is an attempt at an amicable solution in which the debtor is invited to make a voluntary payment.
Then comes the lawsuit, if the creditor wants to proceed.
I know perfectly well what it is, but until you go before a judge, nobody touches anything
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoBut here we're not talking about the blacksmith down the street who you didn't pay for the window.....
Banks put properties up for auction even when they are old and worthless, where each auction round costs several thousand euros in expenses, even for cellars or old properties worth 2000 or 3000 euros.
Each auction round costs more than 7000 euros and yet they keep it going until the property is taken away from the debtor.
Banks and multinationals don't make it an economic issue.
Multinationals have endless budgets and will take you to court for even a few euros.
Try it to believe it.
Good luck and best wishes.
blacksouther
OP3 years agoCome on, let’s not lose our heads and go off track.
You’re talking about judicial auctions, and a judicial auction happens when the asset is seized: it is the conclusion of a formal notice, and upstream there must have been a judgment and a judicial enforcement order.
I don’t think you really know how a proceeding works and the related consequences
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoYou’ll only get away with it if you’re broke, with no salary or pension; otherwise they’ll take a monthly amount.
From the initial 90 euros, obviously it will then rise to much more significant amounts.
sika700
·3 years agoIf, even with letters, registered letters, bills, formal notices, you still manage to sleep soundly... in my opinion... it means you’re not unfamiliar with these practices, given your thorough knowledge of all the procedures...
Good luck.
blacksouther
OP3 years agoThis statement of yours could also be interpreted as defamatory, be careful.
Anyway, this post of mine was not published to get approval or not, much less to turn it into a people's court. It's just a sharing of a negative experience, which may be useful to other users to stay more on the defensive and avoid hidden traps.
Least of all do I expect that those who profit from it will turn against mama Ebay, spitting in their own plate
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoNo public tribunal, but when a user publicly puts themselves out there promoting procedures that go against the site rules, it’s right to provide a counterargument, to avoid other users deciding to "take justice into their own hands" with "do-it-yourself" remedies that lead to results I consider questionable.
It shows that you’re not a frequent forum user because in 2023 it seems to me like you’re the first person to show up, invent the wheel, and wage a battle against windmills while warning everyone else.
You could have kept that remark in your pocket tied up in a cloth bag, since until yesterday you lived with eBay just like the rest of us do.
Best regards.
100852ss
·3 years agoI’m about to join eBay, and I’m doing some research, but reading about this problem... I’m getting pretty worried!!!...........
- I gather that this scam is more widespread than one might think, especially if you’re a private seller
- eBay doesn’t protect you; on the contrary, it protects the buyer, who in this case is a scammer.
I wonder, being a private seller and therefore not protected by eBay, how widespread is this kind of scam?
I have the feeling it’s very common, am I wrong?
thanks
silvano
marioelegio
·3 years agoHere eBay has little to do with it. The buyer bypassed eBay by turning to their own institution as the card issuer. The chargeback was made by their institution against eBay, and eBay is coming after you. According to the rules, since there was no previous eBay decision in your favor, you are not covered by eBay seller protection.
You should have taken back the item at your own expense and minimized the damage. In the case of an item declared non-compliant, you are required to do so both under the contractual provisions between you and eBay and under the civil code (art. 1490). If anything, what is debatable is who decides whether the item is compliant or not; in these cases, since it is impossible to tell whether the seller or the buyer is telling the truth, in all distance sales there is a tendency to side with the buyer.
I'm sorry to tell you that blocking the account will only increase the costs.
bye
mario
blacksouther
OP3 years agoHello marioelegio,
Ebay is involved insofar as it is demanding the amount from me, not from Adyen, which acted in favor of the buyer.
Ebay also never took a position in my favor, indeed it never took a position at all, and its culpability is greater since it accepted various attempts to recover the amount, all of them conflicting with one another: support is therefore nowhere to be found.
I have had the opportunity to settle similar issues through Paypal (which Ebay thought it best to get rid of) and its arbitration is by far more present, competent, and impartial.
The item may also have been non-compliant (the photos sent to me showed the packaging crushed), but the report should have been made within the times and in the manner provided for by the article of the Civil Code that I have already cited and for which my complaint was rejected by the courier.
As for the costs, if they want them, I am waiting for a civil proceeding that I am more than willing to face, aware that what is being disputed is in clear conflict with national regulations.
I still have to see a collection agency that takes on such a mission for 90 euros
Kind regards
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoPaypal only does one thing for a living and every now and then it also sides with sellers, personally taking on the risks of any chargebacks (this happened to me personally).
Anyway, if the buyer's payment had been made by bank transfer, I would have accepted your reasoning.
But since the final say always belongs to visa / mastercard, here we are, ebay has to adapt to their rules.
I hope to see some interesting developments on this topic in the not too distant future.
For now I make do / adapt to what the church provides because there are no valid (serious) alternatives to ebay.
Kind regards.
blacksouther
OP3 years agoI agree about Paypal’s inconsistency in its decisions; I’ve had direct experience too and I must say it evaluates, or at least seems to evaluate, supported evidence more fairly in similar cases.
I honestly didn’t understand what path the payment took; the credit showed up in the account under the name EBAY S.A.R.L. via Adyen: with Paypal out of the picture, the money changes hands in a way that is not entirely traceable or clear for the seller, who doesn’t care much until they run into these snares.
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoGood morning blacksouther
Just yesterday I wrote a post about the problem of visa/mastercard payments on the ebay platform.
Let’s try to analyze the situation.
You are an old ebay seller who recently started selling on the platform again and therefore I assume that your payments were held for at least 15 days before receiving ebay’s bank transfer (correct me if I’m wrong)
When a seller decides to revoke the mandate (a mandate that was initially authorized by you when you accepted the sales terms) you are committing a scam yourself, to the detriment of ebay.
The buyer requests a chargeback for a payment made to ebay, ebay (based on the contract signed by the seller) forwards the payment to the seller who in turn shuts off the tap.
I’d say that’s a classic.
Ebay could definitely have designed this system better because, as you can see, it is pointless to put trust in sellers by making them go through the hold on funds for 15 or more sales.
From your feedback it can be seen that in the past you made several sales of even significant amounts (over 100 euros) and therefore in the new system with a little patience you would have reached the goal of being unlocked by the system to receive immediate payments.
Immediate payments, let’s remember, are given to sellers whom ebay considers deserving and trustworthy.
I admit that when you receive a chargeback notice it is easy to get angry, frustrated, lose your temper and act on impulse; this mechanism in my opinion puts even the most honest and fair sellers to the test.
The system needs to be completely reworked in my view because this way it only creates problems for new buyers who see their money held for months, and this hold does not guarantee a seller’s reliability when they find themselves in situations similar to the one in this post.
Are you aware that this behavior, in addition to debt collection, will also result in your account being blocked at the name level?
Is it worth ruining your reputation for a 90-euro item?
Maybe you’ll say it’s a matter of principle, but it’s a principle I believe is wrong because ebay does not knock on your door to force you to accept its contractual sales terms on the platform.
I’m sorry about what happened.
Best regards.
blacksouther
OP3 years agoHello Heavenwelkin,
I am a long-time user but I have never stopped selling items; in fact, the credit arrived 2 days after the payment that the buyer claimed to have made.
I did file a mandate, yes, but for payments and deposits and not for "extortions" toward which, first, the evidence was not taken into consideration, and second, they are blatantly against the national regulations that govern commerce, regulations from which no contract can depart, under penalty of its invalidity.
I am aware of the possibility of debt collection and I am firmly determined that if they want to collect this undue amount, I want regular proceedings: no collection agency gets involved in civil actions and writes off debts as uncollectible.
Moreover, I am preparing my complaint to submit to the Banking and Financial Arbitration
Of course Ebay does not come knocking at my door, and that is why, in the event of a block or deletion of the account (which I care little or nothing about), I will move to other platforms.
Kind regards
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoThanks for the clarifications blacksouther
Ebay should disengage from directly handling payments because as the mechanism is structured I only see drawbacks.
Might as well have the payment the buyer makes go directly to the seller's visa/mastercard card so that at least ebay can go back to offering 2 months of buyer protection and can avoid blocking money in accounts for months too.
As an ebay seller I am aware that when I sell items I can incur a partial or total loss risk.
The risk percentages are not known to us (ebay obviously knows them) and depend on various factors such as the sales category, the sale price, whether they are very in-demand or niche items, and whether they are items going abroad (each country has its own risk percentages) or whether you sell only in Italy.
Based on these factors I have taken on a loss risk for the item of up to 400 euros.
This means that if I have to sell an item worth 500 euros I don't do it on ebay or elsewhere with paypal / visa/mastercard but I look for other sales channels and options.
If I were to run into an unreasonably dishonest buyer who wants to scam me, I take responsibility for it.
Anyway I respect your position, but I don't agree with the idea that on the chargeback opened by the buyer ebay has to put up the money, also because this would lead to real organized scams against ebay.
In any case, let us know how it goes.
Best regards.
marioelegio
·3 years agoWhich regulations are you referring to?
Civil Code art. 1490: The seller is obliged to guarantee that the item sold is free from defects that make it unsuitable for the use for which it is intended or significantly diminish its value.
Art. 1698 that you mention: Receipt without reservation of the goods transported......extinguishes the actions arising from the contract but this extinction refers to the transport contract and therefore only to the carrier, definitely not to the sender. This is obvious after all, otherwise the actions arising from an intact package (received without reservation) but empty could also be extinguished.
The consumer code articles you mention place all the transport risks in the hands of the professional seller until the buyer has the item in hand, but likewise they do not exempt the seller from the conformity of what appears once the opened package is received. Ebay applies these rules (liability during transport) also to private sellers, since almost always the courier denies any responsibility, stating that the damage was caused by inadequate packaging (and this brings the issue back into the field of non-conformity).
Try contacting a consumer association, but they will hardly tell you anything different.
If you want to file a complaint against ebay, the simplest way is through the Competition and Market Authority. There is an online reporting form: https://www.agcm.it/servizi/segnala-on-line
ciao
mario
blacksouther
OP3 years agoI am referring to this part " Art. 1698. (Extinction of the action against the carrier). “The
receipt without reservation of the transported goods with payment of what is due to the
carrier extinguishes the actions arising from the contract, except in the case of wilful misconduct or gross negligence of the
carrier. Actions for partial loss or for damage not recognizable at the
time of redelivery are preserved, provided that in the latter case the damage is reported as soon as
it is known and no later than eight days after receipt. The buyer assumes the
responsibility when he signs for the shipment after delivery, thereby certifying that the
goods or the package are in good condition at the time of receipt”
Probably I had not highlighted sufficiently that the non-conformity derives, again according to the buyer, from the crushing/damage of the package and not from the intrinsic properties of the item itself.
The recipient signed and did not point out any discrepancy in the package received: his claim went from item not received to damaged item and then to damaged non-conforming item.
The photos he attached (below) show a disintegrated package. In addition, he reported it well beyond the 8 days indicated, causing the carrier's liability to lapse and I can no longer seek recourse against the latter.
The seller, again with reference to the Consumer Code, is responsible for the package until receipt: from that moment on, responsibility lapses.
If no reservation was made, the package is presumed to be in good condition.
Thanks for the link, I will try this route as well if needed
marioelegio
·3 years agoGet advice from a lawyer you trust, but in my opinion, art. 1698 does not apply since it is found in Chapter VIII - On transport → Section III - On the transport of goods and is therefore only referred to the transport contract.
Acceptance without reservation of the transported goods upon payment
of what is due to the carrier extinguishes the actions arising from the
contract, except in the case of fraud or gross negligence by the carrier. The
actions for partial loss or damage not recognizable
at the time of redelivery are reserved, provided that in the latter case the damage
is reported as soon as it is known and no later than eight days after
receipt.
Obviously, the failure to notify you in time prevented any possible action against the carrier, but this issue does not change what is stated in art. 1490, which is in Chapter I - On sale → Section I - General provisions which is therefore the one that governs the relationship between seller and buyer.
Just as obviously, in my opinion, it is impossible that "The buyer assumes the
responsibility when he signs the shipment after delivery, thereby certifying that the
goods or the packaging are in good condition at the time of receipt" since the buyer signs before being able to open the package and therefore cannot know what condition the goods are in.
eBay gives buyers 30 days to open a return procedure for an item not as described, banks even allow more than a year for a chargeback.
Your payment was made by credit card to ebay sarl (eBay Europe based in Luxembourg), ebay (hayden for her) withheld its commissions and credited the rest to your current account. Now the buyer's bank has assessed the dispute, ruled in its customer's favor, and requested the money back from ebay. Ebay was forced to pay and now asks you to reimburse the money it advanced for you.
hi
mario
heavenwelkin
·3 years agoEbay (or rather its algorithms) decided that you weren’t a risky account and that therefore it wasn’t necessary to block payments in advance.
In simple terms, ebay gave you trust right from the start.
We are and will always be influenced by a system based on trust, and the “problem” is exactly here.
As long as human beings exist, the mechanism will NEVER BE PERFECT; for this reason both sellers and buyers have to make the difference and patch things up when necessary.
Unfortunately, all I see are angry and outraged users who leave slamming the door behind them and leaving the past behind.
Kind regards.
blacksouther
OP3 years agoUnfortunately, the introduction of chargeback, intended to give wronged buyers an opportunity, has also turned out to be a crowbar for dishonest small-time thieves who want to pocket both goods and money.
From time to time, reading the community, I too increasingly see users who leave disgusted by the system, its management, and the bad company.
Best regards
sika700
·3 years agoChargeback has always existed... ever since credit cards have existed.
Anyone fleeing eBay thinking they can escape chargebak is simply under an illusion... chargeback will always be there wherever a credit card can be used!
Best regards.
blacksouther
OP3 years agoOn this I must disagree with you
chargeback is regulated by Art. 56 of the Consumer Code, which describes “Payment by card”: it was issued with Legislative Decree No. 206/2005 and also groups together various regulations decided at European level.
It is not very recent, but it does not go back to the dawn of the economy either
Best regards
sika700
·3 years agoCall it whatever you want, but ever since credit cards have existed... I... have always had the possibility of disputing an unrecognized charge on my card directly with the bank... that’s a chargeback!
Kind regards.