New scam by buyers: dispute of payment through the bank, sorry for the rant!!!
Summary: A participant shared a concern about a new scam involving buyers disputing payments through banks, expressing frustration. Several others, including fumettiprato and heavenwelkin, engaged in a prolonged discussion to analyze this issue and explore possible solutions. This ongoing exchange included responses from cizeta1964, vonbalden, and marioelegio, who contributed their perspectives and experiences, highlighting the complexity and persistence of the problem. The conversation spanned over months, reflecting on the impact of these fraudulent activities on sellers.
One morning I found a purchase from a user with zero feedback who had just signed up, paying for two items about 300.00 euros (they were overpriced because I was waiting for lower offers). I’m used to 0 feedback, but with this one I immediately see he’s a scammer, both because of the fake phone number (a nonexistent Bologna number and a Benevento address) and because of the purchase that made no sense at all, so I contact phone support: the lady tells me that we all started with 0 feedback and blah blah blah, I point out that he entered false details (nonexistent Bologna phone number and Benevento address) but she reassures me saying that, according to their check, the address is correct and advises me to write to the customer, which I do. He replies, also giving me the real mobile number and even writes to me on WhatsApp; still not satisfied, I send an email to customer service explaining everything again (but in writing this time) and once again I’m told they saw the messages, the customer paid, so I have to ship. I accept the situation and after shipping I realize the courier won’t deliver because the address is unknown. I write to him on WhatsApp, work with the courier to get him the box and in the end it gets delivered, all this on September 18. Today the payment is being disputed by the scammer’s bank; basically the customer does not recognize the 300 euro charge on his bank/credit card/PayPal (the reason is not known) and so I have an open dispute with this situation: I was only able to respond to the customer’s bank (it’s the bank that opened the dispute) with the photos of the package tracking that was received. Now HIS bank has 90 days to decide whether to side with me or with his customer; at which point, if they side with the scammer as expected, I can only rely on eBay seller protection hoping they rule in my favor; otherwise, as per the rules, they can take the funds from my balance and I can’t do anything about it. Naturally I both called again and wrote to support: nothing, for them everything is perfectly regular like this, hmm....
centroricambicataldi
·6 months agoIt happened to me too.
Two orders shipped and regularly delivered, with tracking and proof of delivery provided. After about 20 days, the payment dispute arrives and, despite all the documentation submitted — including the delivery confirmation and even the buyer's positive feedback — the case is still closed in the customer's favor.
Honestly, I struggle to understand what real protection is guaranteed to sellers in situations like this.
We are asked to comply with increasingly strict standards, but when we objectively show that we acted correctly, it seems that this is not taken into account.
fumettiefumetti
·6 months agoHi, it seems strange to me that ebay hasn't applied seller protection, usually the bank or PayPal takes quite a while to make the decision and practically gives the customer the benefit of the doubt every time, but ebay should reimburse you
heavenwelkin
·6 months agoWhen the seller loses a dispute against paypal and/or the credit institution, ebay takes the money from the seller's account.
We don't have the statistics, of course, but based on what has been read for years in this discussion group and in other virtual places, it would seem that ebay RARELY covers a seller who is the victim of a claim.
Sometimes for small amounts ebay covers it by paying the seller out of its own pocket.
Best regards.
fumettiprato
OP11 months agoUpdate.....After almost a month, in the end the credit institution (bank or PayPal) sided with the customer who kept both the money and the goods!!!!!!!!!! Luckily eBay applied seller protection to me and they didn’t take the first money from me (I have 2 more disputes like this) Now I’m wondering: How is it possible that the user hasn’t been kicked out yet? I still can’t believe that after warning them it was a scam, that he had fake details, after replying that I had photos, videos and proof of the delivery of the box, in the end they sided with him and he’s still registered on the platform free to scam someone else, and then I think I’ve figured out how it works and I’m afraid the little game will never end !!!!!!
marioelegio
·11 months agoEbay did not side with the buyer, but it was the victim of a scam.
With the chargeback, the buyer's bank took its money back from ebay and ebay didn't recover it from you because it protected you as the seller.
When it has solid proof that this is a scammer, it will take action to ban them.
hi
mario
fumettiprato
OP11 months agoEbay didn’t side with the buyer, but they were the victim of a scam.
With the chargeback, the buyer’s bank took its money back from ebay and ebay didn’t go after you because it protected you as the seller.
When it has solid proof that this is a scammer, it will proceed with the expulsion.
bye
mario
I know perfectly well what happened, maybe I explained myself badly, but I wrote that THE BANK OR PAYPAL sided with the customer and if ebay “protected” me it already knows that he is a scammer: One thing that is still not clear to me: I warned ebay before shipping that the phone number was false and if I’m not mistaken false details should be forbidden by the rules, but maybe I’m mistaken
heavenwelkin
·11 months agoHi fumettiprato
Was the dispute the one about the two cards overpriced by 300 euros?
The fact that you brought the issue to the public forum certainly made things easier for you by making sure that some people in the field took interest in your case.
Let us know how the other two disputes go as well.
Good luck.
fumettiprato
OP11 months agoUpdate: For the second dispute as well, the credit institution , in fact I'm almost certain it's PayPal , ruled in favor of the "scammer" the guy is still registered on eBay and I don't understand why.....Like the first dispute, eBay applied seller protection to me and so they paid for it. This morning I received the third dispute from the second "gentleman" from Arzano, who after buying an item for 156.00 euros (overpriced) and having it shipped, had bought a second item from me for 350.00 euros. For the second item I had written to and begged support to do something because it was clearly a scam!!! The reply is the one I’m attaching, namely that for them I had to ship it; luckily I refused and saved 350.00 euros. This second person, unlike the first, redirected the shipment via Bartolini (if they can't find you at home they send you an email to reschedule delivery) to Turin, most likely to a complicit friend. I think I have understood how the scam works through PayPal but I'm not writing it for obvious reasons, what amazes me is that eBay doesn't take action, the fact that there is seller protection and that they reimburse it means very little in the end those lost funds someone will have to pay and that baffles me
heavenwelkin
·11 months agoDon't believe that eBay refunds every chargeback request or PayPal dispute....
You were particularly lucky and/or the discussion you started here helped you out.
For that item that you didn't want to ship you could receive a warning, and/or negative feedback, so next time organize yourself differently to avoid running into this kind of scam.
Best regards
fumettiprato
OP6 months agoFor that item you didn't want to ship, you could receive a warning and/or negative feedback, so next time plan things differently to avoid falling for this kind of scam.
Meanwhile, I saved eBay 350 euros, but that said, I wanted to ask if you have any suggestions on how I can organize myself and avoid this kind of scam because I don't see any....... I removed shipping for Pokémon items over 100 euros but of course I don't sell them anymore or at least I limit sales to very few users
heavenwelkin
·6 months agoIt is ABSOLUTELY not said that eBay would have covered that 350 euro amount.
If that were the case, it would be a paradise for scammers who team up to make fake sales and then receive a refund from eBay.....
There are no solutions for Pokémon cards.
We are talking about the most popular item and the one most exposed to the risk of scams.
Having a valuable Pokémon card is equivalent to having cash ready right away.
A graded Pokémon card sells at market price more easily than any other item.
The solution to avoid scams on this type of item is to arrange an in-person exchange and advertise on another platform.
Best regards.
fumettiprato
OP6 months agoI don't want to start a fight with you, it doesn't serve either of us or even the community...
It is ABSOLUTELY NOT said that eBay would have covered that €350 amount.
If that were the case, it would be a paradise for scammers who team up to make fake sales and then receive a refund from eBay.....
Meanwhile, I saved them (either me or eBay_), and anyway scammers are usually reported, which I would definitely have done if eBay hadn't refunded me; then maybe I wouldn't have gotten anything, but I would have done it
The solution to avoid scams on this kind of item is to do the exchange in person and advertise on another platform.
There are no solutions for Pokémon cards
Already said and done...I removed shipping but as you can imagine sales are at a 50 to 1 ratio, so yours is not advice and it's like saying: Don't sell Pokémon !!
sarhita94
·1 year agoSo I’m not the only one, it seems this scam is widespread, but what is eBay doing?
They protect scammers.
Even if they threaten you and flood you with vulgar language and insults, THEY REMAIN UNDISTURBED ON EBAY, WHICH DOESN'T REMOVE THEIR PROFILE BUT TELLS YOU THAT, WELL, THEY'VE TAKEN ACTION BUT CAN'T TELL YOU BECAUSE OF PRIVACY... BUT WHAT ACTIONS? HE'S STILL THERE AND ENJOYING THE MONEY AND JEWELRY
And if you try calling eBay support, almost all the phone agents HANG UP ON YOU.
I’m an honest seller who, in twelve years of selling, I have never, I mean never, received a negative or neutral feedback, and I find myself asked for a refund of 590 euros for "item as not ascribed" by eBay user [Removed by moderator] WHO, WHEN I ASK FOR CLARIFICATION (THE ITEM IS 100% COMPLIANT WITH THE DESCRIPTION), CATEGORICALLY REFUSES TO TELL ME IN WHAT WAY IT WOULD BE DIFFERENT.
Of course!!!
The smart guy DIDN'T OPEN THE CLAIM USING eBay's customer guarantee but THROUGH PayPal because he knew very well that, having split from eBay, THEY WOULDN'T GIVE ME INFORMATION (even though THEY HAVE HIS NAME), HE OPENED THE CLAIM through PayPal "ON PURPOSE" BECAUSE, NOT ACCEPTING RETURNS (because of these scams, precisely) and THE ITEM BEING AS DESCRIBED, maybe eBay could have ruled against him instead eBay is complicit because it endorsed PayPal's behavior: without even waiting at least two weeks as required by the rules
THEY RULED AGAINST ME WITHOUT PROOF!
EBAY TOOK THE REFUND FROM MY ACCOUNT and [Removed by moderator] ENJOYS THE PERFECT SCAM
Also, THE EBAY PLATFORM THAT ALLOWS SUCH A DISGRACE DOESN'T TELL ME WHICH ENTITY THE SCAMMER PAID WITH SO THAT I CAN FILE THE RELEVANT COMPLAINT.
I found out from the user that it was PayPal, naturally all very pleased!!!
The decision made by some bank or other regarding user [Removed by moderator]'s purchase IS SHAMEFUL.
PAYPAL SAYS IT'S NOT INVOLVED, EBAY SAYS IT'S NOT INVOLVED AND THIS GUY FOUND A WAY TO CARRY OUT THE PERFECT SCAM:
HE BUYS A HIGH-VALUE ITEM THEN SAYS THE ITEM DOESN'T MATCH THE DESCRIPTION WITHOUT SPECIFYING WHY IT DOESN'T MATCH.
SMARTLY, HE DOESN'T USE eBay buyer protection BUT OPENS A DISPUTE WITH PayPal SO THE seller GETS NO SUPPORT, PayPal sides with him and refunds hundreds of euros
eBay support's most recent reply was Oscar-worthy opportunism: "since you accepted the dispute, you need to keep quiet"
I NEVER ACCEPTED THE DISPUTE; ON THE CONTRARY, I APPEALED IT, PROVIDING PROOF.
I asked how I could send the documentation and the answer was "don't worry, we can already see everything, it's not necessary"
So THEY PREVENTED ME FROM DEFENDING MYSELF
Since apparently the scam is widespread, maybe we could join forces and do something, what do you think?
Thanks and sorry for the rant
P.S.: and to think that even though the seller (me) is on pause, I still shipped within the stated time because [Removed by moderator], upon receiving the standard message that all sellers send when absent, wrote to me that "having seen that you're away, it's reasonable to suspect, trust is for the few"
LOOK WHO'S TALKING!
Jung was right with his mirror theory.
The person who calls you a scammer before even receiving the item IS THE ONLY TRUE SCAMMER and I'm dumb for not realizing it right away.
cizeta1964
·1 year agoYou also can't sell all the new jewelry you sell anyway as a private individual, which you call yourself, you are not a "private seller" and above all you cannot write in your listings
fumettiprato
OP1 year agoYou also can’t just sell all the new jewelry you sell as a private seller, as you call yourself; you’re not a "private seller" and above all you can’t write in your listings
but this is another matter......the fact that she is not professional does not authorize buyers to scam her.....
cizeta1964
·1 year agoI don't know why but it never occurs to anyone that, on a minefield like online sales, absolutely anything can happen.
The user in question has left various negatives, and even some neutrals, often bypassing the simplest procedure, namely returning the non-conforming item at the seller's expense.
She got "lost" in accusations and various spiteful exchanges with some sellers, while she sells numerous jewelry pieces that she describes as new, made by her, but refuses to guarantee them.
Her refusal does not exempt her from complying with the law, nor from the possibility of being scammed, she claims the right to leave negative feedback in abundance....
In her listings and in the community she cites the details of the person who scammed her (always according to her, we only know her version of the facts), so much for privacy...
The conclusions are easy to imagine.
fumettiprato
OP1 year agoI don't know why, but it doesn't occur to anyone that, on a minefield like online sales, literally anything can happen.
The user in question has left various negatives, and also some neutrals, often bypassing the simplest procedure, namely returning the item that doesn't match at the seller's expense.
She has gotten “lost” in accusations and various petty reprisals with some sellers, while she sells numerous jewelry items that she says are new, made by her, but she refuses to guarantee them.
Her refusal doesn't protect her from complying with the law, nor from the possibility of being scammed; she claims the right to leave negative feedback in abundance....
In her listings and in the community she cites the details of the person who scammed her (always according to her, we only know her version of the facts), privacy be damned...
The conclusions are easy to imagine.
But who are we talking about???? I sell and that's it, I can't leave negative feedback.... please explain better thanks
sika700
·1 year agoOf the other user who took part in the conversation... the fake private one who makes "jewels"... who writes obscenities in the description...
Have a good evening.
cizeta1964
·1 year agoAwesome, sika700! 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoThere are 3 types of disputes a buyer can make on eBay.
1) The dispute for an item not received or not as described, directly on eBay, which can be filed within 30 days from the latest estimated delivery date.
2) A PayPal dispute (for various reasons) that can be opened within 180 days of payment.
3) A dispute / denial of the payment that the buyer can make by filling out forms to be delivered at the bank counter or sent online. This type of dispute can be opened up to 13 months after payment.
These are the BASICS that a seller should know when listing an item for sale.
So every seller who sells on eBay risks receiving these 3 types of disputes.
If a PayPal dispute has been opened against you, you may have more chances of mediation, since PayPal carries out more checks before issuing the verdict (it asks for information, proof of delivery, etc.), so you may be able to play your cards right.
If a dispute has been opened directly with the bank (chargeback), it is definitely more complicated to win, since it is precisely the Visa/Mastercard payment circuit system that works with a certain SWIFTNESS / ease and in 80% of cases the matter is closed in favor of the bank.
So yes, the only thing you can do now is provide all the documentation requested during this procedure and hope that the buyer made serious/obvious procedural mistakes.
Good luck and keep us updated if you’d like.
Regards
fumettiprato
OP1 year agofrom what I understand it's a bank dispute, what really pisses me off is that I warned ebay 3 times before shipping but unfortunately there’s zero protection for us sellers. I have both the video of preparing the box (suspecting the scam) all the messages on ebay, the ones on whatsapp and of course the tracking, all things that unfortunately are useless. Anyway, if I were to receive a charge, I would definitely file a complaint
cizeta1964
·1 year agoeBay support is completely nonexistent in many situations; it's better to follow your gut and, if the buyer seems unreliable, cancel and refund, especially if the amount is significant.
fumettiprato
OP1 year agoI agree, but we need to be prepared for a flood of negative feedback, then how is some poor soul supposed to work?????
cizeta1964
·1 year agowe need to prepare for a flood of negative feedback
No, if the address is wrong and/or does not match, as in this case, in the case of a negative one you can have it removed if the buyer has been duly refunded.
fumettiprato
OP1 year agowe need to prepare for a flood of negative feedback
No, if the address is wrong and/or doesn't match, as in this case, in the case of a negative you can get it removed if the buyer has been properly refunded.
That's not what support told me, it seemed that the fake phone number was an insignificant "oversight" by the customer, in fact I kept pressing this point a lot
cizeta1964
·1 year agoAs I will never tire of repeating, reading the rules is essential, much more so than contacting support.
An incorrect and/or nonexistent phone number matters a lot, both for the seller and for the courier.
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoThe very fact that you had posted a purchase proposal (you didn't specify it but I infer it from the fact that you wrote that you were waiting for a lower offer.
That there were problems with the phone not matching
That there were problems with the address.
You should have canceled the sale.
An ebay operator, one of those who talk from a call center in Albania, really can't have a say in matters like these. In the sense that they can't say whether a phone number is wrong or an address is incorrect. These DECISIONS are up to you, the seller.
As the seller, you have the right to cancel the sale if you see that something doesn't add up; there is even as a cancellation reason "wrong or non-matching address".
Sorry for the inconvenience.
fumettiprato
OP1 year agoit was about products for which more than half of the buyers had feedback of 0 or just above, so for this reason I wasn't worried, but I called support directly and asked whether I could cancel the transaction since the phone and therefore the details were fake, to avoid a possible negative feedback, but I was told no!! Besides, the buyer confirmed their address via msg on ebay.
Anyway, now that I know, at the first sign of a scam I'll cancel the sale, but I didn't think it was so easy to rip people off and maybe even ebay like this
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoFor the type of items you sell, I'd be worried about Pokemon cards; otherwise it's hard to find the scammer who targets comics and stickers.
In some sales categories like consumer electronics (smartphones, computers, video games, consoles), scams are not at zero point something, but can even reach significant double-digit percentages....
fumettiprato
OP1 year agoFor the kind of items you sell, I'd worry about Pokémon cards; for the rest, it's hard to find a scammer who goes after comics and trading cards.
In some sales categories like consumer electronics (smartphones, computers, video games, consoles), scams aren't down at zero point something, but can even reach significant double-digit percentages....
in fact they were Pokémon, and I know very well that they are "carriers" of scams, but up until today it had never happened to me, not even for much larger amounts....It'll be a lesson for me.
Anyway, I still remain amazed at how easy it is to scam people and get away with it, this doesn't seem normal to me!!!
heavenwelkin
·1 year agofumettiprato
OP1 year agoUnfortunately, these proofs are of no use during the dispute between eBay and the buyer's bank. The chances of coming out on top are pretty slim.
True, but support told me about seller protection; from what I understood, if with eBay the item is shown as properly shipped and delivered, in theory (....) they shouldn't charge me anything
As for the bank: I heard from a friend who works at Intesa, it has happened to him sometimes, but according to him you need evidence like that it's a scam, or a "fraudulent" site, or that it wasn't really him who made the purchase, and anyway the fact that one has to stay in the red without being able to do anything, not even file a report, doesn't seem normal to me; anyway I'll keep you updated
heavenwelkin
·1 year agofumettiprato
OP1 year agoTrue, but support told me about seller protection; as I understood it, if eBay shows that the item was regularly shipped and delivered, in theory (....) they shouldn’t charge me anything.
It all depends on the level of interaction between eBay and the bank; unfortunately, you can’t intervene in the dispute and will only have to provide eBay with whatever they ask for and hope that, with the evidence provided, you can prevail over the bank or that eBay activates seller protection.
In any case, keep us updated.
In my opinion the bank can say and do whatever it wants, but between me and eBay there are a lot of things in my favor
1) I warned support in writing and by phone about a possible scam
2) I asked, always in writing, to be able to cancel the transaction and they told me there was no reason to
3) I have the full video of the preparation of the package and the tracking of it, regularly delivered to the address
in conclusion, the bank may side with its customer, but I doubt that eBay will tell me I was wrong since I followed what was recommended, I have the evidence
As soon as I have news I will write here again thanks everyone