DAC7 and 730, how to behave
Summary: The discussion is about how to deal with Dac7 and the 730. Many participants are involved, but the specific details were not provided in the visible messages.
Last year I sold, net of eBay taxes, €2236.37 (of which €563.26 was shipping), for a total of 198 items.
In the taxes section I still haven’t received anything, but since I’ve far exceeded the number of items (even though they were mostly low-value) how can I fill out the 730 without worrying?
Will I end up having to pay 30% of the €2236 (so more than €700)?
If so, the barely €1800 of money I actually collected by the end of the year will become 1100...
Can I at least deduct the shipping costs for which I kept the receipts?
Thanks.
19 comments
piripicchia59
·1 week agoThere’s no doubt in my opinion that they can’t tax an expense. But we’re talking about actual shipping costs, not the ones declared in the listings. I recommend everyone keep their shipping receipts. If challenges from the Tax Agency or Finance Police were to arrive, these would first be deducted from the amount we’d be taxed on.
Or does anyone think differently?
By the way, I had written to ask whether anyone who went over the DAC7 limit has received any communications from the Tax Agency or Finance for 2024. Apparently no one so far. All the better.
fs81-94
·1 month agoIn order to make things easier for honest users, they should raise the limits to 5k and carry out some sort of withholding at source . You talk about honest ones because the dishonest ones will have 5 accounts registered under their wife’s, mother-in-law’s, and children’s names, with corresponding zero-fee current accounts .
I find it ridiculous that within certain limits you should have to worry about the 10 items, the receipts, the photos, or that an extra €1000 could raise doubts that you’re a professional seller . The proceeds are tracked, unlike the real undeclared economy . That should be enough
ortofantastico
·1 year agopopolibero, if you read above you already have the answers to all your questions.
in the event of an audit they definitely won't come to see you, they'll send you a compliance notice: "it appears that you sold X on platform Y, please justify etc.." you'll have time (usually 60 days) to respond and make your case.
But keeping our feet on the ground, they will receive thousands and thousands of reports (considering all platforms) I think it's unmanageable to go and call everyone, it's easier to start with the most blatant cases to get the message across: "get your act together".
Different for those who rent properties on platforms for vacations etc. there even if you send them to call everyone it's easy to manage and you make cash right away.
Then maybe I'm wrong, but it's just my opinion.
popololibero
OP1 year agoIf I’ve understood correctly, the only possible cases are, absurdly enough, 1 and 4:
I do nothing and for a couple of bucks nobody will move, or I get a criminal complaint for an illegal shop because 4 sales a week added up after a year look like a lot to someone (I repeat, it takes 10 minutes, and I remind you that we live in the age of collectible cards, with people buying and reselling thousands of cards a year for a few euros each, what’s the point of turning a hobby into a job when the money involved is ridiculous and, on top of that, gets spent again on the same passion?).
Trying to declare this money in the 730 form (or the amount over the limit) seems counterproductive to me at this point, it almost becomes a self-incrimination of commercial activity (?)
That doesn’t seem like a good outcome to me.
marioelegio
·1 year agoIf your collection has been accumulated and maintained over the years, you’ll definitely have photos of the collection or old receipts to prove it in case of checks. Even better if these photos were posted in the past in some group.
hi
mario
mercedespareparts
·1 year agoIf he doesn’t have photos because he’s not used to taking them, do we immediately assume he’s a delinquent squatter who doesn’t pay your taxes as well as his own?
ortofantastico
·1 year agoIt serves to start the report. The rest depends.
ortofantastico
·1 year agoI add:
In the second case, they don't have to do anything.
In the first case, you need to distinguish whether the business activity is occasional or continuous; if it is occasional, section D where in column 3 you subtract the costs (including shipping), if it is continuous, see previous post.
Now, if you say that you are carrying out business activities (by filling in the 730), then you can discuss whether you were an occasional or a continuous operator
If you do nothing, you can also discuss whether it is just a disposal of assets. In that case, you should have good supporting documentation.
And ignore the VAT you paid at the time of purchase because the VAT had already been paid by the publisher under art.74 dpr 633 and therefore it doesn't count for anything.
popololibero
OP1 year agoI file my 730 as an employee just for the medical deductions; everything I sell is part of my private collection (which has gotten a bit out of hand over the years, I tend to compulsively accumulate things) and I’m trying to pare it down little by little, within the limits of the law and without ending up with the tax police in my house (who I’d still offer a coffee to and proudly show my library).
I’d like to understand clearly whether eBay’s communication to the AdE automatically implies something to worry about or not. I still haven’t figured out whether the maximum sales/money threshold is simply there to trigger the report or whether it’s a maximum limit beyond which you’re required to declare it (and in that case, the full amount or the difference from the 2000?).
ortofantastico
·1 year agomy personal opinion: one thing is if I sell a book for 2,000 euros, then I am an occasional seller because I sold something sporadically; another thing is to sell continuously, always reaching 2,000 euros, but not sporadically or accidentally, rather through transactions carried out continuously.
In the second case you are a merchant subject to VAT registration, SUAP filing at your municipality (usually via the impresa in un giorno portal), chamber of commerce, INPS and, in this specific case, SIAE authorization.
Then of course you can patch it up on the Form 730 by filling in section D (line D5) ... but ... you decide -.-"
popololibero
OP1 year agoSo a collector who regularly buys books or DVDs (on which they pay VAT) and wants to sell part of them for space reasons (at best for half the cover price) now has to open a VAT number (which costs at least 5,000 euros a year, plus accountant, etc.) to make back 2,000 GROSS euros?
Posting 4 books a week costs me 10 minutes of time; would that be an activity carried out on a continuous and professional basis?
eBay’s limits for professional sellers are 10 times higher; what sense does it make now to treat private individuals as abusive VAT numbers over a few peanuts from used items?
ortofantastico
·1 year agoI know that eBay's limits are much higher, in fact it's my personal opinion that eBay won't dispute anything with you.
sika700
·1 year agoBut in fact it's not ebay that will question your sales... it could be the Revenue Agency or the Financial Police... they will be the ones to receive the data that ebay will send them.
Kind regards.
mercedespareparts
·1 year agoWe’ll extend our cordial greeting to you too, with diligence and spontaneity.
heavenwelkin
·1 year agoGood evening popololibero
The limit established for this DAC7 is 30 items per year.
That would be about 2 to 3 sales per month
If you have sold 198 items, that means you had to make 198 auctions and 198 shipments (maybe fewer considering combined sales).
In any case, this is a significant commitment, which involves a certain amount of time.
For eBay there are no problems.
For this DAC7, however, you have FAR exceeded the limit of 30 items per year.
You have to evaluate it yourself .... the advice the forum can give you is to declare why you have exceeded the limits.
Kind regards
popololibero
OP1 year agoI've always bought and sold on eBay sporadically (I've been here almost 20 years now, 15 of them only as a buyer), 3 years ago I started living with my partner and moved into a smaller house (I have about 1500 DVDs and 3000 books, they take up a fair bit of space and I decided to clear out a small part of them), regular sales started after the move.
I’m also fine with the tax authorities wanting to check that anyone who exceeds a certain number of transactions isn’t an illegal dealer, but if this limit means that above it you automatically become at fault, then things change completely and this should be specified both by eBay and by the AdE.
In short:
_I exceed the limits and only risk an inspection? Fine by me, as said above I have both a good reason for doing it and photographic proof of having been buried under books all my life.
_I exceed the limits and the amount above €2000 has to be declared on the 730? Fine by me, but tell me.
_I exceed the limits and everything I sold on eBay has to be declared on the 730? I’m less happy with that, but tell me.
_I exceed the limits and therefore automatically become at fault, with the risk of fines or even criminal proceedings for an illegal online shop? Honestly, this seems absurd to me and contrary to the reform itself.
I’ll add that for my hobbies I spend more than triple what I made on eBay in the last year (all tracked online expenses), if now I can’t even recover a small part of it by selling stuff that already belongs to me (and that clutters up my house), just say so and we’ll shut up shop and leave eBay only to professional businesses.
PS
>You have to judge for yourself .... the advice the forum can give you is to declare it because you have exceeded the limits.
Declare to whom, exactly? Thanks.
marioelegio
·1 year agoThe DAC7 regulation is aimed only at platforms. It requires them to identify sellers, intermediate payments, and report users who exceed certain sales volumes. Obviously, the request is intended to identify anomalous private individuals; for a professional, it would be suspicious not to reach certain limits.
However, the regulation has no tax value and provides nothing for those who exceed these limits.
The tax laws are the same ones that have been in force for decades; the only addition is this automatic reporting.
If there ever is an audit, someone who is actually a private individual and is only selling items they have owned for a long time should have nothing to fear. The burden of proof should be on the agency, but I think having proof of prolonged ownership of what is being sold would certainly not hurt.
hi
mario
shikamaru30
·2 months agoHello, this year I’m in a similar situation: with 67 sales I’d barely go over 2000 euros, if I were to exclude shipping costs I’d be under. Will I have to declare the full amount, or is it possible to subtract at least the shipping costs? In the previous year, did you manage to get any satisfactory answers? Thanks for the help
marioelegio
·2 months agoThe issue isn’t the 2000 euros, but with 67 transactions there’s the possibility of classifying the activity as organized and ongoing.
Talk to your accountant about what the best strategy might be.
bye
mario